ECN Forum Forums Technical Discussion Re: Computers and the Internet When will XP run out?

Those of us that never upgraded to things like Vista or Windows 7, when does support run out for Windows XP?

We all know of Greg Fretwell that is still using Windows 95 and 98, with no real problems (as far as I know).

But I ask the question, how long after you lose the support of M$ can you actually go on using an OS, without upgrading?

Your thoughts and input are welcome.

Basically, if your application doesn't change, your software doesn't need to change. In a business environment that may just be your tax program.

You can go on forever using an OS after the official end of support as long as it supports the software you want to use. This only affects them releasing new patches and getting help from the vendor. If you have bundled software (pre-installed) microsoft probably won't help you anyway unless you pay them. You end up talking to Dell's (or HPs) Bob from Bombay who will be reading from a script. The other issue is drivers for hardware. That axe swings both way. Old hardware may not be supported on a new OS and new hardware may not be supported on an old OS. You still may be able to find a driver that works but you are on your own.
The flip side of that is old software is usually a lot more stable than new software. I still use DOS for a lot of things.


The official policy from microsoft is that they support an OS for 24 months after the last service pack is released. They have made an exception with XP since that would have been 4/21/10 (SP3). They have put a stick in the dirt and said the OEMs have to stop pre-loading XP home by October. I am not sure if that means support stops in October or October 2012. I have heard that XP is the most used OS in the world right now. Microsoft has a huge installed customer base that is not going away until they buy a new machine. The good news is XP is pretty stable.

Personally I think there are great deals right now on used P4 class machines from name brand vendors, with XP Pro stickers on them (licenses). That is really the only reason I am migrating the fleet to XP. It is a good idea to download the SP3 package from microsoft and put it on a CD so you can reload it if you need it. Also make sure you have a good restore disk for your machines with all the drivers. Those "free" driver web sites are becoming less free and a lot more cumbersome to use. I also worry about getting a driver with a little something "extra" in it when you go to a no name site. I make it a habit to save driver while they are still available from the manufacturer's site.

As for the applications, there is always oldversion.com to get older versions of commonly used software. I just went there the other day to get Firefox and Flash that would run on a W98 machine I am building (jukebox with weather radar on a second monitor for the tikibar)
That is DOS MPXPLAY.EXE and Firefox 2.<sumpin> running on W98.

My 'old' laptop is running Win 2000 Pro, which was part of a botched 'repair job'. I have the recovery discs for that LT, as well as for this "newer" one. I've been getting by, as I use the 'old' one for my PT instructor time.

I've tried in vain to install the rescue discs, but to no avail. I guess it's because of the Win 2000 Pro being the OS.

It would be nice to install the DSL, restore the DVD to record, and .....run a little quicker.

Any suggestions??

I may have a windoze 2000 disk if you have the COA sticker with the secret code. If I don't I know my neighbor does.
I got it on Ebay, still in the shrinkwrap for $10.
These things are kicking around in desk drawers, never opened and they pop up on Ebay regularly. You can also get old business software cheap that way. As long as it is still a sealed package, it is legal. With MS operating systems you don't get the secret code with a disk tho so you need the COA sticker.

Greg:
What I meant to say above is that (older) LT came with XP from day 1, which is on the rescue disks (Toshiba). The botched repair wound up with 2000Pro, which is not friendly with the DSL, DVD, etc.

Think I should just shop for an XP disk? Or is there any way to use the recovery disks?

I have a stack of XP disks. Do you have the sticker with the 25 digit code? If so I can send you a disk. Send me an address.

The school district I used to work at, and still keep in touch with has over 2,000 workstations on XP and they have no plans of upgrading anytime soon. They stayed on Win95 until around 2001/2002 and didn't upgrade to XP until around 2004. When I got laid off, they still had around 200 machines running Win2000, but they have since replaced them with more XP machines.

The real answer depends on what you want to do; basic stuff should be fine, but if you have to keep up with the bells & whistles on the Internet you may discover that software support will start to drop off. But, with the huge numbers of people still using XP it could be a while. It sounds like MS is going to drop off XP support for its software sooner rather than later; probably trying to "force" people to upgrade, though third-party software developers will probably still be supporting XP for a long time.

I had an email from Microsoft that said the support period for vista and XP is ending soon if not already. It was part of my usual notifications I get every week from the big guys in Redmond.

They will still sell you a PC with XP loaded on it but it is $50 EXTRA (over the cost of seven).

Here is a link to the Microsoft page that has the support ending dates for all the different versions of XP

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?ln=en-gb&c2=1173

Both my laptop and desktop systems still use Xp, but as for discontinuing support for the operating system I haven't heard anything yet. I did hear windows 8 will no longer have the traditional desktop screen, instead it will be like the ipad's version.

And to think I still have a windows 98, all it needs is an audio driver.

According to Wikipedia first week of April 2014 is the end of support of XP

I am still running several W/98 machines. The software may not be supported at microsoft but that just means they have finally fixed all the bugs

Software never goes bad, you just start getting hardware that won't run on it. (drivers) but before you give up, look at the manufacturer's site. There may be a driver for an older piece of hardware that still works. If you run old hardware, the old software is perfect for it.
New software is just a trap to make you buy new hardware.



Want to see a screaming fast machine? Run W/98 apps on a machine that was made to run XP. (any P4 with a gig or so of RAM).

Bill Gates seems to have dropped that deal about loading XP on another machine too. It used to be that you had to jump through hoops to move the registration from one machine to another. Now it just goes through when you do the register on install option. I haven't tried to run the same S/N on two at the same time tho. I bet it will gripe about the first one the next time you hook into microsoft.com and it runs the verify routine.
I know the last one you registered the software on works tho. (downloading media player or one of the other things that wants to run verify)

Youtube has videos of folks running WIN95 on modern 3GHz machines and WIN7 on 386's, etc.

Although I use XP at home and WIN7 at work, WIN98 seems to have had everything I needed. The only problems you run into are missing drivers and internet browser capability.

I am not sure what internet browser capability you lose.

You can go to oldversion.com and get the appropriate version of Firefox for W/98. You can also get the old versions of flash and whatever else you need.

It really depends on what you are doing with that machine. My main machines are on XP with some upgraded products (like Word) but my "appliance" machines are still W98 (weather station, MP3 players etc) mostly because the software I run is not XP friendly but I still want to be able to get to the internet and they all hang on my network.

For the few hardcore DOS users out there, you can run DOS on XP using a free program called DOSBOX but it runs seamlessly on W/98.

Bill Gates makes sure there are not any easy ways to bootleg a copy of windows since W/XP but the XP versions seem to be a lot looser on the verification these days.
Typically every copy of windows is only licensed to one machine and they poke around your machine for MAC IDs CPU IDs and some other unique identifiers when you authorize it.
Lately I have noticed XP is not picky when I move it but I am sure 7 and 8 will be.

Sorry to drag this old thread up again, apparently M$ is planning to end all support for XP on April the 8th 2014.
My XP computer is now starting to nag me to upgrade to W8.1.

Like that is ever going to happen.

I think what will happen is a lot of people will just turn off the notifications, I know I will be, come the 8th of April.

I have not seen that nag screen yet but I have 6 running XP and it is not likely to change any time soon. I have 2 W/98 machines.

My wife is not going to change her 12 Point Of Sale machines either. They still work and there is no reason to think they will stop working.

The primary push for up-grading the operating system is the DRM crowd... aka Hollywood.

The number one reason to not upgrade is your CPU and system.

8.1 requires drastically more chip speed -- and is written for 64 bits NOT 32.

Silicon Valley hasn't shipped a 32 bit machine in years.

I must conclude that some provision has been made for emulation of 64 bits -- but -- on the whole -- older machines actually can't use 8.1.

Just as XP can't run on 16 bit machines. Any attempt at emulation causes the machine to slow down to the point of futility.

This transition to 64 bits goes back quite a ways. It's really designed for Hollywood.

32 bits was plenty for all other uses. The old IBM 360 could run an entire Fortune 500 company with 32 bit 'words.' 64 bits was a double-word, 128 bits was a quad-word.

Of course, the cheapo towers being thrown to the curbs these days are fantastically more powerful than an IBM 360 -- which would not be able to drive an iPhone.

I am not sure what needs that blazing speed anyway. I was watching video on a 266MZ Pentium 2 machine with a video accelerator card. (my first DVD player).

A 2mz P4 seems to do just fine on most things and once you get up to 3mz I am not sure what the average person can't do.

I suppose if you are into gaming big time or doing video editing it is useful but certainly not for the things I do every day.

Of course if you load it up with a bloated operating system that eats CPU cycles for the sake of eating them you need a new machine. They just have not showed me what 7 and 8 can do for me.

Greg...

You nailed it. MSFT puts in 'wait states' within its code.

More than a decade back, they over did it. The howls coming back from IT departments were so intense that Gates sent the code back to the shop to 'improve its performance.'

It had taken four years to write the new era operating system. In less than six weeks MSFT was able to improve its speed FOUR TIMES OVER. No bugs were introduced.

There is only one way on this planet that such an achievement was possible: Gates had his crew take out the wait-state padding that had been thrown in for marketing purposes. Removing such bloating lines of code is exactly the kind of thing that can be done quickly.

Wait states are obligatory for without them, no-one can interact with their computer before it's moved on to the next process step. But, this is deliberately taken to the absurd so that ever exploding chip performance does not stop the public from running out to buy a new machine.

All of the new bells and whistles are to be slipped into the wait states -- replacing them -- so that the user does not comprehend just how much of their expenditures -- all these years -- have been cut to pieces by MSFT.

Only Java Scripts seem able to clunk up browsers enough to become noticed. I now have to use No Script to stop my machine from clunking all the way to dead stop.

Any interrupt driven OS needs wait states and they do not slow the machine down if they do not miss the interrupt. It is simply the way they direct traffic when you have more than one thing going on at a time. Generally they are waiting for a hardware event to finish. It can be a problem if you are not managing your hardware efficiently but the biggest time killer is a lack of RAM when the system has to page software segments in and out of disk storage to run. I have seen systems so overloaded that they were paging, just sitting on the desk top.