ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area 3 speed pool pump incentive/requirement?

Mike:
Formula...

3 speed motor = 'boat load of money'??

Not to rain on the legislators' parade - regular readers will know that I think code-writing has run amok, and that the 'energy' codes are among the worst offenders - Having a pool filter system supplemented by modern controls can really save energy.

Indeed, from the comments so far, it appears that other codes have obstructed the market from addressing this fact.

I've seen the most basic solar collectors make a huge difference in pool heating costs. Remember, as you circulate the water you are also often heating it!

Likewise, codes seem to assume that chlorine is used to sanitize pools. Perhaps this was once a fair assumption - but these days, ozone generators have largely replaced the traditional systems.

I can see merit in multi-speed or speed-controlled filteration arrangements. Let's look at the traditional chlorine arrangement for a moment ....

Chlorine is depleted, in greatest part, by simple sunlight. I suspact that if you had a photocell increase the flow during the daylight hours, you would be adding chlorine as you needed it, and be better able to maintain an even concentration.

Likewise, timers could be used to give the pool a 'power filteration' just before opening time, or to increase filtration during the busiest hours. I think this woiuld be a real improvement over the simple 'on/off' systems we now use.

Lest anyone misunderstand me, I truly wish that code writers would step aside and let the market, and technology, take their natural course. Nothing encourages conservation better than the monthly electric bill!

Like John pointed out, a commercial pool has to run 24/7. The only wiggle room seems to be in the speed of the pump, bearing in mind the 3 turn overs a day rule.
I wonder how much excess capacity a system would have if it was designed for 24 hour service. I also wonder how much the health department would be willing to accept when you started slicing that spec too closely. If the design turnover rate was once every six hours, do they want to err on the safe side and want you to run it longer to deal with the system degrading with age. (filters become less efficient, pipes may scale up and the pump will wear).
The only way I see this really saving energy is if the system was over designed in the first place and you were turning the water over 4 or 5 times a day.

My wife is looking up the specs on the system as we speak to see what they can do.

BTW this is new Florida energy legislation coming up in July 2011. I am trying to find the bill.

This is it and it seems to only be residential pools.



I am still not sure how this saves energy over just running the regular pump for one turn over and shutting it off, which is what most pool timers do.
Mine runs about 6 - 6.5 hours unless the solar heat is on and then it shuts off when I am not getting any solar gain (after the base cycle).
If I had a 2 speed pump I would run it at low speed when the solars were working and after I had the required turnover, just the opposite of the law.
You don't need much water moving if you are just extracting heat from the collectors.
Politicians always want to fix something that ain't broke.

Greg .. please tell me someone is joking!

I'm not sure there are any single phase motors left that you would be allowed to use - and to what end? And what is this 'default speed' gibberish? Looks plain to me they're trying to mandate 3-phase motors on a 1:3 phase VFD.

As you point out, the solar collectors would be served with a slower, rather than higher, flow rate. Perhaps whoever wrote that was looking at a 1750 rpm centrifugal pump curve, and assuming collectors atop a two-story house!

This reads more like a 'product specification' written by a salesman to eliminate the competition from the bidding.

While I'm all in favor of good design, I'm all against litigating it into our lives.

John.,

That comment that is not a joke anymore we are facing the same issue in France as well there are talk about using triphase motor with VSD on it and yeah the single phase motor is slowly drop out of favour as well we have simauir goofy regulations as you guys have now.

So, ya are not alone with this one.

Merci,
Marc

They are still trying to figure out what this really means if the non-response I am getting from the Fl IAEI is any indication. It is probably another thing that will be ignored until midnight on June 30 next year and then everyone will go into crisis mode trying to sort it all out.

Sounds like what I'm hearing from EC's with 'what the hexx do you mean bond the water'.

Back to this subject. Something to what Reno said about the disenfection (chlorination) is in my head. IF you run the pump slow for a period of time, while increasing the chlorine mix, could you not provide a 'sanitized' pool?

Our pools (NJ) for the most part a seasonal, Memorial Day to Labor Day, except the indoors at the hotels and college. It may be a long time cming for the speed controled motor to get here.

There are two issues. Sanitizing is just maintaining the chlorine level. The other issue is actually taking that water through the filter "X" times a day. The chlorine will kill the microbes but you still need to get their dead bodies out of the water or they decompose and you get algae growing. It also makes the water cloudy. Commercial pools also have a turbidity standard. You pretty much have to be able to make out the slots in the screws holding the main drain cover on from the deck.

A high speed pump cycle would be nice to be able to accellerate filtering to clear up algae or other water quality issues. Energy standards would come into play so that the pump would normally run at low speed for normal filtering, and only run at high speed when required to.