ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area The end of electric heat?

Where I live, I am on community owned hydro power and there is or was a suplus for generation. We pay about $0.09 per kWh. The more we use, the less per kWh we pay. There are other small communities that are on diesel generator and paying $0.50 to $0.75 per kWh. Fuel is $4.00 and higher per gallon. My girlfriend up in Fairbanks is paying $0.18 per wWh (coal). Over half of that is fuel surcharge. Juneau is paying $0.14 but asking for a 20% hike and an interim %20 hike on top of that (hydro). Two winters ago they had a avalanche take out their main transmission line and 5 towers. They spent six weeks on diesel and their rates skyrocketed to $0.55 per kilowatt. Hydro is dirt cheap in comparison

Wow, after all of this discussion, I verified my most recent bill and was shocked. Including taxes and all of the other crap that is tacked-on, I'm now paying 10.7 cents per KWh here in the North-central part of Virginia.

It was only 6.7 cents two years ago.

I still can't complain. Less than $200 per month in a total electric house (heat pump) with well water, so I am sure I'm still way ahead of the game. It has been in the mid-high 90's for most of June, so I'm all good. My highest electric bill ever during our drastic cold winter last year was just below $400, which is not bad for a 3,000 SF house.

I laugh (quietly of course) at my friends in nearby areas using gas and propane. Their combined bills are almost twice as high as my single bill.

Ive done a couple conversions of to electric heat. During the planning, I told them their electric bill will go up quite a bit especially in the winter and they go ya, ya. They get their first bill and they are on the phone to mee. OMG our bill went up 400 bucks! Never mind the $600 oil bill they are no longer paying and the $200 savings is in line with the estimated savings.

It does say it's an average; my rate is around 9 cents per kWh--including transmission and distribution charges. Raw energy use alone is between 5-7 cents (tiered system). Our PUC just approved a .1% price decrease that went into effect on June 1.

I'm fairly certain our rates would be lower if it weren't for our neighbors to the south; a significant portion of the power generated in the Columbia basin is sent down to California--and a significant portion of our own power comes from coal (38.9%) and natural gas (23.2%). Only 36.6% comes form hydro, which is probably from the dams owned by the PoCo and not the feds. Of course, there are other rate plans to source power from "green" sources, and state law will require utilities to provide 25% of their mix from "green" sources over the next couple of years. This will probably result in a price increase, since the majority of our hydro is controlled by the feds.

spot on Reno, and so the Q can be made simple, because it's asked of us as EC's when confronted>>>

"what's the most economical way to heat my home"

the influences of corporatism , the green machine with it's red roots, and the media's continual din pandering to the sound byte mentality of the general public make a yes/no answer all but impossible.

google the bold above if you'd care to venture into just that excerise in futility....

~S~

Politics aside, the question of how you heat is not decided by the price of utilities.

One issue is availability; mountainous and remote areas often lack piped-in gas, and propane can be problematic in an arctic winter. The simple MAJOR expense of filling an oil or propane tank at the beginning of the season is also a consideration.

Electrical heat has some advantages; it's certainly far easier to insert pretty elaborate controls. On the 'minus' side of the ledger, electric heat can easily double the electrical load your house poses to 'the grid,' and that affects everything from the service drop on back. There are also 'self reliance' concerns.

Electric heat was last 'in vogue' in the 60's, when a rosy future of extremely cheap nuclear power was anticipated. Yet, politics became the driving force by the early 70's; nuclear power was 'out,' in spite of the '73 oil embargo, long before Three Mile Island.

Indeed, political pressures have led to the exact opposite situation, where the price of power is inflated as a means of advancing 'conservation,' 'alternative energy,' and a variety of other schemes. Things have to be pretty extreme these days before electric heat makes economic sense.

Still, electric heat hasn't stopped improving. The latest version is incorporated under your floors, and gently warms the entire floor. For those who have actually experienced this sort of 'radiant' heat, it is by far the most pleasant form of heating. Warm feet mean a dramatic increase in comfort. So far, this is done only in smaller spaces, such as bathrooms.

Yes, Reno, I agree on the availability of utilities, the fill the tank cash $$$ and deliveries of propane and cold , cold issues. Yes, in some areas good old electric may be your only choice, or possibly a wood/pellet stove.

As I said above somewhere....an EC can sell elec heat as opposed to other sources, and be the lowest installed cost. To some people that is 'economic sense'! They look at the gross installed cost, not the operational costs.

Controling the t'stats and 'zone' or spot heating assists in KWHr usage, but that is the end users chore.

Last year, three (3) McMansions had electric radiant heat installed for the driveways for snow melt. We had <6 snow accumulations over the winter, and two of them got huge electric bills. A couple of other McMansions have radiant floors in the baths , kitchen & hallways keeping the marble warm & toasty. All I can say is 'God Bless'

Thanks for the link Sparky. If I were calculating costs per BTU for electric heating, I would not include any standing charges, on the basis that I'd be paying them anyway for the electricity used for lighting and cooking etc.. My poco has a trick worth looking for BTW when trying o calculate the net cost of juice - it adds sales tax @ 19.6% to the local and national taxes levied to 'improve infrastucure' [whatever that means]. Tax on a tax and added to every Kwh used! I'd also be wary of makers claimed COP figures for heat pumps. Not only are these likely to be optimum values obtained in the lab in ideal conditions, but will vary [ ie down!] with the temperature of the source and the temperature of the output fluid. This is particularly the case with air-source units when the outside temperature falls below frost temp.

"Electric heat" and "electric resistance heat" are NOT one and the same. Electric resistance heaters are about the worst think you can do- far far worse than heat pumps, gas or oil. Electric heat pumps and direct burning of fossil fuels are all about 3x more energy efficient than electric resistance heat.

So, yes, electric resistance heat is 100% electrically efficient, but you have to consider losses that went into turning those fossil fuels into electricity. You also most consider that heat pumps are more like 300% efficient- every 1W of electricity in a heat pump will pump roughly 3W of heat. Actual numbers vary with conditions and design, but it is possible to move more heat with a heat pump then you extracted in heat energy burning the fossil fuels to make the electricity; with that respect, heat pumps are really the best thing out there until you start to get into the really really cold climates where heat pumps aren't practical and direct-burning fossil fuels makes sense. When this law proposed eliminating electric resistance heat, that's what they meant- resistance heat. Heat pumps (and presumably emergency strip heaters as a caveat??) would still be OK.

True enough, but the cost of the heat is not all you have to pay for before your toes go blue and drop off. To be able to use a heat pump you need to buy one [duh] and get it piped and gassed up. To take advantage of the COP, you either need Underfloor Heating or twice the area of conventional radiators, because the most efficient water exit temperature is only 104F, half a normal circuit's temperature.

Here in France, the vendors have already done the sums, factored in the Gummint tax reliefs and creamed off most of the advantage for themselves. Example: An air heat pump's major component is nothing more than a big aircon unit, yours for under $2000. Heat pump with a similar output and a bit of sheet-metal work, $7500 plus 20% sales tax. Green Tax credit -£3750. You still have to remodel the existing or build a new heating system, which is not peanuts. I estimate that in my house I'd only save a lousy $5 a week by nursing the planet with a Geothermal heating system.
... and we haven't even started looking at depreciation, interest on the loan or annual maintenance costs.....

Once you do the real sums, electric resistance heating with good insulation starts to look remarkably attractive!