ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Wow, I cut my teeth in the biz dealing with those setups in Bergen County (Northern), NJ. I can't tell you how many of those jobs I encountered. I got to know the Square-D "QO-612" panels pretty well in fuse panel replacements. It is hard to believe that such installations still exist after my 30+ years and are sustaining today's electrical requirements. I'm sure that there are literally thousands of them out there between Baltimore and Boston at a minimum.

I remember encountering single-pole, 50 amp feeders to apartments in NYC. When was the last time that you encountered a 50 amp single-pole breaker? Oh boy, how times have changed.

yeah, this apt house has five electric ranges running off branch circuits that start on two-35A single pole breakers in this old girl

i haven't even asked if there are replacement breakers available yet....

~S~

I would be more concerned about the FPE panel on the right more so than the others.

What a tangle of NM cabling in that mess..looks like lots of add-ons over the years.

As a guess I would date this around mid-to late 60's.

Slightly off-topic,
How many times have you been in an area like this, where you need to do some work in a panel and the area is so poorly lit (or the one light that is installed is poistioned in such a rediculous place, it leaves the equipment in a shadow) that you either have to wear a head torch or resort to the old torch in the mouth trick?
One thing that I am really against as an inspector is poorly lit electrical rooms.
It's just slackness on the part of the electrician.

In addition to Trumpy's issue, how many times do I hear that there is no emergency lighting in the Electric Rooms because they're trying to save a few bucks on the building?

I firmly believe that there are some things that you should avoid doing with a light hanging from your mouth...and restoring the main power is definitely one of them.

Ghost,
That is a VERY good point, mate, I'd never thought about it like that before.

Persuant to lack of lighting, you would LOVE our MDP. It's a 2000A (mains rating), 208Y/120 I-Line switchboard. Located in the seating area of our auditorium, the nearest light is behind it... and those are recessed can lights. There are lights in front of it, but the architecture prevents them from being useful (plus they are 25-30 feet above you). Better bring the portable lighting! Oh, and there is NOTHING preventing a patron from, say, turning off our 600A chiller; oh and it's directly adjancent to our fire exit. Grr to bad safety design...
\end tangental rant

It is IN the auditorium, in the house section? I can see all kinds of wrongs with that... Was this a renovation, or a purpose-built space?

that, and 3' is not a lot to ask either imho....~S~

Indeed, in the auditorium, in the seating area. Yes, it was purpose-built, in 1928, but recently remodeled. After the flood FEMA needed our mains above the flood level, so the distribution section is outside and the MDP is in the seating area. (There is really no other place to put it, we just don't have the space).

I suppose its safe enough as that fire exit is only used for emergency egress (ie, never used) and over 90% of patrons don't likely even notice its existence. Still, long-term we want to find SOME way to make it safer / more tamper-resistant.

trobb,
Square D has dead front covers with hinged lockable doors available for all of their low voltage panelboards, including the I-line. Just measure the size of cabinet and check with your supplier. The door also provides an extra measure of safety if a breaker has a meltdown.

Ed,


I did a lot of work with my old boss in Bergen county too. Those types of services were all over those old cities. I worked in Secaucus, Guttenberg, West New York, Jersy City, Hoboken, etc. The largest service like that I ever worked on had 9-11 meters, 1 main and I think it only had a 200 amp. service coming in to the building.

Interesting old meter board.

It would be a pain to work on as well the before mentioned poor lighting conditions as well.

For new sites it should be mandatory to have good lighting on both sides of switch panels installed in switch rooms.

Ray,
We've all seen it before in not only switch rooms but in corridors that have a panel or switch-board installed along the line.

Look, with the cost of fluorescent lighting coming down since the introduction of HF ballasts and newer more efficient fittings, like the T5 fittings.
It would be a false economy to not throw a couple of these fittings at right angles on each side of the panel so that there were no shadows at all.
If that is all you have to do to provide good safe conditions while people are working on panels, why would you not do that?

NEC 210.70 requires a lighting outlet controled by a switch (wall mounted or self-contained) by.near equipment requiring servicing. Panels fall under that definition.

Exact locations, or 'more than one' are not within the referenced Article, no matter how you read it.

Code aside, 'adequate' lighting is installed on new comm jobs, a few memorable electric rooms were 'brain surgery' lit. When renovation time comes for the older dungeons, the lite will shine.