ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Intersystem grounding block

Harold:
The ground bar/neutral bar 'leftovers' may only be listed for being installed within an enclosure, and not exposed to the elements; BUT who can tell???

I have no idea if the items that are manufactured (UL listed) are any different from the bars within panels, or the bars that can be purchased & added to panels. I have to assume that the UL listed items are suitable for installation where subject to the elements.

I would suggest that the bus bars intended for use in cabinets are not wet location rated and the screws will quickly rust. You have the same problem when you use a ground lug outside.

Greg,

It is funny that you show that picture. How many times have I seen AL ground lugs on pool heaters. I fail that all the time. The EC tells me that it is UL listed for the application and I can't fail for that. I also show them the NEC in 680 where it says, the bonding must be , Copper, Brass SS, and it doesn't say anything about AL lugs!
I also called Hayworth pool equipment ans I complained to them that they are using AL lugs on their heaters and it is wrong. I am now seeing the pool heaters with Cu bonding lugs on them.

I agree. A few years ago all the pool manufacturers went to a different style lug that seems a lot more robust.

Aluminum is EXTREMELY sensitive to chloride ions...

Which occur in road salt, ocean mist, bleach and pool acid.

If you inspect any aluminum panel board bus installed near the coast...

Look to see whitish aluminum chloride powder on the rails and a nasty voltage drop of 1 to 3 percent from that alone.

I should move this thread over to my thread about pools. However I still see pool equipment coming through with AL lugs on them. When the job fails, the EC gets annoyed that I fail something that is UL listed for the application. Yet I have talked to UL in the past and they assured me that it is OK to fail the job if it didn't meet the NEC. I told UL that according to the NEC AL lugs are not approved for pool bonding and why are they allowing it on the equipment that they are certifying? They said that they will have to get back to me on that one. I am still waiting.

Harold:
Don't hold your breath while you wait.

Maybe we should move to a climate that has no pools?

I don't think the problem is, as much, the aluminum lug as it is the steel set screw they use in most that were designed for dry location use. The PoCo uses aluminum crimp sleeves all the time outside. I still believe you should be using a copper or bronze lug on pool equipment. The problem is, 680.26(B) simply refers you to 250.8 for the lug so you can't say there is any special "pool" type. You can only look for a listing that says wet location. If the installer can reasonably assert the equipment is in a dry location you don't even have that.

Greg,

If I see an AL lug used on pool equipment that is installed inside a house or cabana, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Even though the NEC states that Al is not allowed for bonding of a pool.