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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
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Unlike fuses -- which are completely swapped out for new -- a tripped breaker always suffers internal damage - normally trivial -- due to the breaking arc in the fraction of a second that the current is being broken.

After enough age, corrosion, oxidization, and trip-outs the contact surface within the breaker can be diminished enough to provide additional local heating.

When you're taking at 15A breaker to its steady state limit of 12A and then some -- you've lost your margin of error.

Replacing a sick -- quick-tripping breaker -- with an old breaker that fails to trip at all is a blind guessing game. Who says that the non-tripper is functioning correctly?

.....

I'd use a TASCO tester or Meg out the field wiring so as to eliminate concern on that front.

Check for voltage loss at the buss: reducing the voltage at that point feeds heat to the breaker. Sometimes I find voltage drops of 1% or more right at the bussing! This is very common for panels near the ocean.

Provide a new breaker whenever weirdness kicks in. In the field no one has the testing equipment to test such a cheap circuit element.

If you want to study up on all of the ways that a circuit breaker can screw-up get a job with a MAIN breaker testing service.




Tesla
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
Member
So,It is possible for a breaker to get 'tired'. wink

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
G
Member
Heat trips breakers. Resistance causes heat. Loose connections cause resistance. Sloppy receptacles are loose connections.
Damaged wire in the circuit could also be causing the resistance and heat. Since the heater works fine on another circuit with different wiring, you need to look beyond the OCPD.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
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Does a breaker next to this one get warm?

Just thinking there may be some heat transfer from an adjacent Breaker.

Bill

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 402
J
jdevlin Offline OP
Member
I have not been able to get back there yet. The breaker did not get hot when it tripped.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
I think it was Einstein who said that once you've eliminated the possible, then the answer must be the impossible.

Let's back off, and start over.

The first question: is it the circuit of the appliance? I say just replace the appliance, and see if the trouble goes away.

FWIW, I had a similar problem some time ago. While a bad power strip was found, and a bad refrigerator compressor as well, the real culprit was a cracked / broken bussbar.

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,294
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Originally Posted by renosteinke


Let's back off, and start over.

The first question: is it the circuit of the appliance?


I think the fact that the heater operated at the same load when plugged into another receptacle pretty much eliminated the appliance as the source of the problem.

As for backing off and starting over, I think the other members that have posted on this thread might some have issues with that.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
Well, it'd be a dull world if everyone always agreed with me laugh

I don't think we've eliminated the heater, simply because the problem persists.

This appears to be an intermittant problem; the breaker doesn't seem to trip while the OP is actually there watching things.

What else can be done before you tear apart the service equipment? We can swap breakers with a known good one (done), we can megger the circuit itself, we can replace the device, and we can replace the affected load. If all those prove to be OK, then we're left with the impossible: there's a problem with the service equipment.

In troubleshooting, you can proceed one of two ways; you can start at one end and work your way along, or you can start in the middle and start isolating by halves. In either case, a necessary first step is to cast aside any previous thoughts you had, and start over.

In the examples I mentioned above, the fault occurred at irregular intervals. With the fridge the compressor had to be running; with the power strip, the bad connection seemed related to moving the various wires attached to it around, and with the cracked buss ordinary traffic vibrations influenced the amount of contact vetween the two sections.

Oddly enough, as soon as I remembered the cracked buss a theory explaining the OP's problem presented itself: poor contact on the neutral side would lead to a voltage fluctuation, which would lead to the heater (a pure resistance) drawing more current. I wonder if anything else has suffered from high voltage transients?

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,294
Member

The OP never tried a new circuit breaker, he never tried Greg's suggestion of using the breaker that didn't trip the circuit.


Intermittent?.......Not really......It trips on a regular basis.
He was there when the breaker tripped. The OP said "Breaker is not hot. Takes about 5 minutes to trip." in his first post. In his later post, he said "I was clamped right at the breaker. I did use the hold feature and it did not spike high. The high max was 12.55 amps."

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,443
Likes: 3
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Quote
15 amp circuit trips when heater plugged into it. Nothing else on circuit.
Ammeter reads 12.5 amps at breaker.

What is wrong with this picture?

A circuit-breaker is set to trip at 1.5 (150%) times the stated label current, this is what most of us call I2t (the square of the current multiplied by time)
(Higher current, shorter time)
All non-adjustable circuit breakers are the same, provided they are of the appropriate "curve ratio".

Now, IMO, this breaker should not be tripping until it senses at least 22.5A, on the thermal side of the breaker (as opposed to the magnetic side, that senses gross overloads, which should trip instantly).
I suspect a bad breaker.

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