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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381
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Virgil:
For what it's worth, I have the same feelings that you do regarding "the plans"
If it's a contractor or client that I don't know, it's simple...they do not get the plans! I give them a verbal description, and if the job is a "go" then the plans are available.

Fortunatly, most of my work is for regular clients, and "no bid". I do budget numbers, with design, get input from the involved "people", and work up specs. You may call it design/build or ???

I have one now thzt I'll be working on for a bit...50KSF, retail and/or office; possible 68 meters. Needs "new" everything. I have pics of the "old" service, just have to figure out how to get them into ECN. (I'm not "good" at that part of the 'puter.
John


John
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 257
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Virgil,

As far as someone using your plans goes...

When I did design work I would go over the drawing with the customer in detail.

If they wanted a copy of the plans I would charge them for what ever time I thought I had in the design and then if I got the job that fee would be taken off of the price of the job.

If I didn't get the job I at least got paid for the plans.

Joined: Nov 2000
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I've revised the Proposal and added the materials list. Sorry about the hard-to-read format.

Whatcha think?

Thanks!

-Virgil


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
G
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virgil ---

My reading of the proposal is that you provide 2 heat pumps and several other items I suspect you do not want ot include.

I am suspicious of anyone who lists electrical tape and 20' lengths of wire on a bid for a house. This makes the contract way too long.

I would have listed groups of items rather than individual items. I.e. ---

200 amp SquareD breaker box with breakers for 32 circuits) Who knows if the specific items will be available or not when you do the work.

By mistake I purchased the wrong brand of recessed lights for my garage - 28 cans were cheap but the 28 covers @$15 were a bit much compared to other brands. I hope you specify the brand of recessed lights. It might be nice to specify the brands of any items where different brands vary in price.

(I think your electrical bid is too high for my location. But with the 2 heat pumps and other items it might be ok.)

Joined: Nov 2000
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George,

I'll include the branch wiring for the heatpumps, but not the units themselves. I'll make sure that is more clear.

Just trying to protect myself on the precise take-offs. Didn't realize it could be considered a bad thing.

Don't have to worry about the recessed cans materials. They provide them all. I just hang 'em.

The price is high. Quite literally three times what I would get to wire a similar house off of the hotel grounds. The price is based upon the figures that they accepted on the last bid. Everyone there says "stick it to 'em" and they seem to be willing to pay for some quality. Heck, at $11,500 it's still less than 1.5% of the value of the house! I want my piece of the pie, and if I offer to do it for less, they will always make me do it for less.

I can't afford to screw this up.

Besides, they "strongly suggest" for me to retire my truck. (I guess it's an eyesore...)

[Linked Image]


Here's links to the basement plan.

Link 1

Link 2

Here's the link to a news report on this job:

Beckley Register-Herald

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-21-2002).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
To me this has gone way overboard. You are giving to much info and to much ammo for someone to complain about something. IE "well you only installed 36 receptacles not 42, we'll expect to see a credit" or "I saw the switches and they only cost $.47 not$.69". If it were me (and it's not) I might loosen up a little on the legal mumbo jumbo and I would certainly remove the materials list. What I do and have found to be effective is to give a price with everything included and then break it down to labor and materials. Thats it. If they want more they will ask and i do what i can to accomodate. I have found when people see the actual costs of things ($75.00 low voltage dimmers) they are more likely to not want them, less money for me. Group it all together as much as possible and it is easier to sell the whole package based on the total price. Also you are spending a TON of time on this what if you don't get the job. You are out alot of money you can't recoup. I'll give price oevr the phone, if they ACCEPT it they get it in writing if they are shopping around I am not laying out the job for the next guy. I am one person and my time is very valuable and very limited. When I am doin paperwork and estimates no work is getting done and no money is being generated. [Linked Image] Speking of being too wordy [Linked Image]

Joined: Oct 2002
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Virgil, I agree with Electricman Scott: If you get to detailed, they may think you're to picky and get someone else for the job. If I have to give them a few more switches or recpt., it is worth it to get the job. Switches and receptacles are not that expensive.. Steve [Linked Image]

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Virgil ---

Hope you get the job.

Hope you make a lot.

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
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OK, I've cut it down a bit, any better?

[Linked Image from users.stargate.net]

[Linked Image]

(Just kidding)

In seriousness, I know of no other way to bid precisely without doing complete take-offs. And when I've already done the work, I may as well protect myself with the info.

What if they say they want spec grade Decoras (if they make such a thing) and Claro wall plates!?!?! Then I'm screwed. With my materials list, it is clear exactly what I'm bidding for.

What if they want all splices splitbolted? No splitbolts on the materials list... Change order.

What if they want to change the location of the panel which would add a disco? That be almost $300 I would lose if I didn't spell it out.

Should I not spell it out? How else do I define what I'm bidding for?

Please, I really need to know.

[Linked Image]

I just feel it protects me.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-21-2002).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 209
S
Member
Virgil,
I have received many bids in my former life as a facility guy. I see no problem with spelling out what you are going to do and the materials. Don't go too far and tell them what brand of wirenuts you are using. I have received bids similar to your second one. When comparing to the spelled out bids guess which one went into the can.

When I would review bids I needed the detail to make sure that all of the bids are apples to apples. Not apples to oranges.

Yuo have already spent the time so might as well use it. If not then you have wasted all of that time.

Good luck.
Scott

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