ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Help me locate the hidden GFIC

Just remembered a situation I had a few months ago. Similar scenario. Changing recepts in bath. Gfi breaker feeding baths. Tripped breaker, changed recepts, reset breaker, no power! Tested breaker and it was ok. Searched for gfi recept that mght feed baths, nothing. Looked all over house. Eventually found outside recept was also on circuit and was also dead. Pulled out recept and found backwiring was just loose enough to cause trouble.

Years ago, knew a contractor that would install the GFCI outside of the dwelling then go to the bath room from the load side of that GFCI.

Very cost effective, but in a northern climate not very convenience friendly with the Home Owner wanting to use the bathroom recp(s) on a cold and rain morning.

Some GFCI also open the neutral circuit, not sure if they open the neutral circuit for down stream slaves.

To all Ya'll Sparkys,
There are no other dead recpt/ckts in the house that I can find therefore with no ckt tracer I am unable to locate the ckt in the panel.
The GFCI recpt tester that I use is the Sperry Inst type.
The dead bathroom/sink recpt is fed with NMC/Romex.
I guess the male customer is using the female customers recpt to blow dry his hair.I haven't had a chance to get back there.
I really do appreciate all the suggestions and encouragement.I am going to give it one more try next week(based on all the above info) and if I don't find it I am adding a GFCI and feeding it from the closet.
Chris

Chris,


GOOD LUCK! And let us all know what you find out. You have plenty of people waiting on the edge of their chairs, waiting to see what you find. We all want to be with you to see if we can help you but you are the only one who can do it. Again good luck and let us know.

Harold

Hi.

To locate the breaker on a live circuit, I have had excellent results with http://www.triplett.com/bksniff.htm. Plug in the "transmitter" at the receptacle in question and then use the wand (attached to a battery-operated unit) and at the panel, you will hear chirping when you pass the wand over the breaker for that circuit.

To trace conductor(s) definitely not energized, a tone and probe set such as http://www.progressive.textron.com/products/toneprobe.html can be used. You will need to connect the "transmitter" or "toner" via clips to a pair of conductors, or one of the clips to ground and the other to a single conductor, or in the case of BX, one of the clips to the BX shielding and the other to a single conductor.

In this particular case, (being absolutely certain there is no current) put the tone on the conductors, and you should be able to pick up a signal somewhere behind the walls, though it may be extremely faint. I have had success by turning up the volume on the probe and just moving it along walls very slowly. Energized wires will cause a hum, as will fluorescent lights nearby.

I just tried this myself to be extra certain that it will work. (I depressed the "test" button on the GFCI receptacle.) The tone went from the (de-energized) receptacle (on the "load" side of the GFCI) to the (de-energized) GFCI receptacle and was nice and clear. I then checked past the GFCI receptacle and there was no tone whatsoever. So, you should be able to get to whatever is providing the GFCI protection using this method. Again, if there is a lot of interference, you may have difficulty in hearing the tone.

If none of this works, you could, of course, install a new GFCI receptacle.

Or, tell the guy to buy a new hair dryer with a straight plug, or just let his hair air-dry!

Then be sure to add to your bill for the tonsorial consultation fee.

Hope that helps!

Chris, it may be simpler to add him a new receptacle and disconnect the wires on the one that is in quesion and cap them off. Steve..

You can try a compass at the garage peg board.......the needle will be attracted to the EMF of "live" electricity. Works great for those pesky buried outlets as long as they hold after turning on the breaker. You can watch the needle pinpoint and track the location as you slide in across the phantom recep location. That is if it is there and you are close height wise. If you get one of those progressive toners (which are great BTW) get the 200FP because it helps filter out alot of the interference. If I remember right it was about $120 vs. $90 for the 200EP. Not sure if I was ripped off or got a smoking deal but it has saved me alot of time and made me alot of money in the process.

Did a search for some reason and have never seen something like this before...might help you http://www.lessemf.com/electric.html. I think I want one of these. The first one on the page BTW. Is it basically a simple gaussmeter?

[This message has been edited by kinetic (edited 12-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by kinetic (edited 12-20-2002).]

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