ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area New GFCI's

Virgil, it dosen't make it more expensive for you, it makes it more expensive for the customer and more profitable for you. If people do not want to pay for a safe and code compliant installation, you are fighting a losing battle that you can't win. I am starting to see very clearly how great the Massachusetts way of doing things (in this regard anyway) really is. With inspections, code enforcement, statewide code uniformity, board of electricians, and accountability, things are much better for the "good guys" than it seems they are in your area. I guess your sales skills are as important as your electrical skills.

I must be missing something here. Is there a code change I'm not aware of?? Are new type of GFI's going to be required??? Thanks.. Steve...

Electricmanscott,

It's interesting here that most GC's and homeowner's seem to have a better "idea" or budjet for the electrical long before I show up. Let's call this number "X". Let "Y" be the cost of materials with the older GFCIs, no AFCIs, etc., and let "Z" be the extra cost for the new GFCIs and the AFCIs.

Now, Let's call "W" the labor, overhead, and profit.

X-Y=W

X-(Y+Z)=W

Therefore: Z = 0, or W must lower in value.

Scott, I'm not trying to be sarcastic. If you disagree, please explain how it makes me more money... I don't understand!!!



sparkync, UL requirement as of 1-1-03.

A 30% material markup on 12 dollars would be more than the same markup on 6. You make more money, but unless is is required by law i guess it all depends on your sales skills.

Let me explain again...

If it is a bid job, and the people accepting or declining the bid already have a price in mind, and I happen to luck out with a figure that falls into this window of operation, then if my materials are cheaper, I make more money. If my materials are more expensive, I make less.

True, a markup of 20% would be more money on the choice between a $1,000,000 item than say a $1 item, but if your bid was only $500,000 your going to lose money buying one and make money buying the other with or without the markup...

(Figures exaggerated for clarity)

Does that help make more sense of what I'm trying to say?

Not to worry, I'll buy 'em and install 'em as always, but I don't see making more money on them on bid jobs.

First I dont think we will have a choice as these will be the only GFCI's to buy. Second when I bid a job I bid it to make money based on my costs and what I estimate the job to be worth. I NEVER EVER price a job with the intent of the price being what they want to pay. I get the same thing from people all the time "Oh that is higher than I thought...." Well what did you think it would cost and where did you get that figure? So the bottom line is I will price a job with the Gfci costing me $11.00 + 20% markup. $13.20 for the customer, profit for me, $2.20 vs $1.36 profit for old gfci. Virgil, you simply can not let the customers tell you what the electrical work is going to cost, this is not how a succesfull business operates.

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 12-16-2002).]

Sparky66,I understand completely. I have to bid apples against oranges so to speak.75% of the people I price jobs to have talked to cousin Vern who once saw someone splice some wire,and Vern says you dont need that.

Scott, I see your point.

I guess my perspective is:

Any acceptable bid will be too low, or someone else gets the job. For instance, at the Greenbrier, the Construction management team has a very precise range of acceptance of bids. They've built 50 virtually identical cottages and there'll be 450 more built in the next 10 years. With 15 GFCI receptacles at a moderate $4.00 increase in price, that translates to $60.00 which is two hours of my labor that I have to shave off somewhere. Yes, it is a small amount, less than 1% of the labor of the job, but it does all add up.

The best average per hour I've had on big bid jobs is less than $25, and I shoot for $30. I've had as little as $6 per hour before I had a helper. When this happens, $60 looks like a weeks pay.

But I am trying to break free from this mess by giving everyone the impression that I'm just too busy to mess with anything but profitable work. It's a bluff and a gamble.

Virgil, tough going around there I see. I have been in your shoes. I don't know anything about the economy or demographics of your area but I'll tell you how I handled going from the yuck jobs to the ca$h jobs. I sought out the higher end work. I called businesses (contractors etc) that are known to deal in areas where the money is renovations not new construction. I made myself very available to them and their customers. I have a very nice truck, I wear company shirts, I carry drop cloths, brooms, vacuum, and I am very dependable. This is very impressive to people who are used to tradespeople of a lower caliber. I was so busy at one point I started to go on job interviews because I couldn't handle it anymore. Instead of working for someone else I raised my rates cut ties with the crap work and focused completely on the good stuff. The result, I work many hours, but I also take my fair share of days off. I make more money than ever, and I am less stressed. I stay one man because I want to not because I have to. I do not let inspectors bully me nor do I let contractors do the same, and for this I now have great contacts and mutual respect with the people I deal with. It is good to be the guy nobody can get because I am too busy. People think that means you must be good! Now what was the topic again..........