ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Building Codes for Electricians Permit required or not?

In my locality, yes. The city inspections department here actually has a convenient list saying specifically what does and doesn't need a permit. I can't find it online at the moment, but they've got a whole stack of 'em at the inspections department. (We have similar lists for structural, plumbing, etc., too.)

They will let you replace a receptacle 1:1 and replace a light fixture without a permit, but pretty much everything else electrical requires a permit and an inspection- adding a new circuit breaker certainly applies. And replacing an entire panel without a permit will land you a hefty fine!

I don't think it's overreaching at all- screwing up a single circuit is still dangerous.

If the law is overly restrictive then you just get lawbreaking en masse. You have to have laws that are practical and enforceable. How could you ever enforce a CB replacement law. Society just ends up figuring which laws to break and then does not worry about breaking other laws either. Its petty and teaches contempt for law.

This sounds more like a tax than a safety measure.
Do they actually come out and inspect this new breaker or do you just send them a check?

I have to fess up & admit this:

I have not seen any permits for replacement of a cb. And, honestly, I never gave it any thought until I'm reading this thread.

We have treated a replacement cb (like for like) as a repair. I'm not aware of any area that is requiring a permit, and I'll kick this around with other AHJ's at the next meeting.

Would I fine anyone for doing it? NO!

As to the panel change (no permit), if it's a first offense, a 'go get a permit' verbal. Second time would be a different story. And so on....

BTW, fines can range up to $2000.

Wed/Thurs nite I'm going over the highlights of the UCC, and whatelse other then the NEC is the EC's responsibilities. (My NEC Code class at Vo-Tech)

I'm surprised at the response to this thread

Look at it this way ... as I read the list, for rules to be complied with, EVERY service electrician would need to cart an inspector along with him, in order to have each job permitted / inspected as the work presents itself.

For example ... to cite one service call I had ... the plumber called me in on a water heater problem. It turned out that the wire insulation had been damaged during the pull, and was shorting out againse an LB. All I needed to do was replace the damaged wire with new.

Yet, this work would clearly require a permit and inspection under those rules. That sounds unreasonable to me.

Let us stay in perspective:
No particular order (we are dealing with government after all..That's another perspective.)

A panel change, Yes a permit is required. many things could be changed and or omitted.

Breaker change, C'mon, the inspector would fine you just for the aggravation.
Permits in general are basically "revenue enhancement" They do admittedly serve a serious purpose.

More laws yes, creates more scofflaws.
just look at Insurance,they practically encourage fraud (that's another topic for later).

Quick story of last year:

A mans Mother died. He wanted to rent the house. Redid the bathroom and Kitchen.
FIXTURES ONLY. Placed them on the curb (standard trash pick up,not the issue).
The Town put a 'Stop work" order on his door.
To replace a toilet,Kitchen sink and stove!!

Yup! That's what we're dealing with here.
The tighter the budget gets the worse it gets.
I made some money so I'm happy. Also did some unregistered Plumbing work. Gained a customer etc.

I check the local board of registration here, A Bunch of people every month getting suspended for 'No Permit',Failing to list the name properly (IE: Journeyman must be listed-- Joe.P.Public Electrician.Lic # etc.
Master lic: WXYZ. Electric. Lic #.

I'll stop now. I'll be back with a story from TODAY. (RE-Permits)

Thanx for your time.

Reno:
LMAO! THe Twp I work in is 32 sq miles, 105k pop., and has everything from a major mall, to two major office/dist/whse complexes, resi/comm, chemicals, hospital, etc.

Two (2) elec insp; 2 plumb insp; 1 fire; 3 building insp; 1 construction official; 1-CCO insp; and 3 office girls.

IF it were a perfect world.....a inspector/clerk for each service sparkie? Perhaps, but our world is far from perfect; you know where I'm going.

Permit follow up:
We are a sub to a (sprinkler) contractor. "Parts and smarts", We supply and start up the system. all other aspects are by 'OTHERS'(sprinkler subs).

Today,Private school, 2 buildings. Appearance is a lot like a 60K sq' house.

The wiring inspector comes thru for a walk thru,(still under construction) and notices the contractors sub installing a small control panel for a suppression system. This room is 9' X 9'.

Then asks where is the permit? So to the inspectors credit,He was on top of the project.

All fire permits were in place, Just no Electrical.

System consists of:

Fire panel on outside wall, poke thru to a Manual-release and an abort button. 1- Horn strobe in the room,discharge strobe above panel and the actuation device for the tank.

Total install time (mechanical,electrical and start up test) 9 Hrs.

So,They went down town and got the $75. electrical permit.

Funny that Lee,
Over here (I'm an ex Fire Safety Officer (think Fire Marshall)), that would not fly at all, a fire alarm panel must be on the inside of the building that it protects, with a window of 3' x 1' showing that panel to the fire brigade before they make access and in what area the sensor has tripped, in a multi-storey building where multiple fire appliances are turning out, this can mean the difference between getting to the next call on time (which could be a hospital)
A real difference in Codes, but at the end of the day, it has to come down to how quick fire crews can ascertain exactly where the fire is.

Here in Chicago, the fire alarm panel gets mounted inside the building, within 25' of the door that the fire brigade will enter.
That always causes whining from the Architects who want the Lobby to be perfectly gorgeous, but the fire brigade ALWAYS has the last word.
After all, how happy would you be if you died in a fire in a pretty building? I'd rather get found in time to be rescued inside a building with "one of those ugly red boxes in the Lobby".
If the fire brigade's not happy with the building, they won't sign off on the Certificate of Occupancy...and NOBODY can be inside the building.
Period.
End of sentence.

Ya gotta love anyone who runs into a burning building when everyone else is running out of it.