ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues AFCI on smokes?

When time was of an essence the resi inspectors here would trip the AFCIs on the way in, verify all bedroom outlets were dead (or a representative sample) then reset them on the way out.
You would think that now that we are only starting a handful of houses a month they would do a more thorough inspection but I think they just downsized the department to the point that the inspectors are just as busy.
My wife says they were just as superficial on the inspection of her new guard house as they were when she was closing 2 houses a week.
That "shelf under the panel" we were talking about a while ago passed. It was even worse than the original thing I saw. They took the shelf out and put in a base cabinet, before the final.

I do wish you would have said " SOME inspectors" and not generalized that statement. I am a commercial inspector and I do get to inspect multi family dwellings and groups of townhouses if they use meter stacks verses individual meters. Any dwelling I inspect I inspect the complete unit first then head to the panel and trip the AFCI's then go check to see if everything in the bedrooms is off including the smoke detectors. Yes that means running up the steps again - sometimes it's 3 or 4 floors up, but I consider that as part of my job!
Not all inspectors are lazy-

LS, don't pick on George ... he was only responding to my comments. My comments were not intended as an attack on inspectors ... rather, it was in the context of my expressing contempt for those tradesmen who rely upon the inspector to police their sloppiness (or even cheating).

As I see it, it's not the inspectors' job to ensure that the tradesmen are 'up to speed;' it's the professional who makes sure that he's current with codes and practices. As for those who deliberately see what they can slip by the inspector .... in my mind, they are little different from the shoplifter who 'forgets' to place everything in the cart on the counter.

No, unfortunately, all inspectors are indeed NOT lazy

Seriously, I am much more happy when an inspector is nit-picky and complete in his/her inspection. I live in a house too, and would like to think that it has no hidden time-bombs related to a lazy contractor and/or an equally lazy inspector.

I believe in the inspection process, and I appreciate a competent inspector who takes his job seriously. Hats off...

When I'm working on the maintenance/repair side, I find things on (passed) new construction that make the hair on the back of my neck do a little dance, and it scares me to think of the poor people whos safety is at risk.

I was very lucky in my state inspector job that the guy installing equipment was usually the guy who would have to live with it so we were partners, not adversaries and the inspection process was really more of a consultation than an enforcement. I tried to keep that same attitude when I was working with contractors on the jobs where they didn't have "in house" electricians and managers. I found most contractors really do want to do the right thing since it is their license, reputation and money on the line.
On a state job, the contractor is really the only one you can sue if something goes wrong.
I also had the luxury of time, not something most inspectors have and I really like looking at electrical stuff. I was willing to climb up and look at things a lot of guys would inspect from the ground. Just the fact that they knew I was going to be looking around a while kept people honest. I also made it clear right away that they could call me for an opinion any time they wanted to. I really like to think the inspector and the installers are partners with safety as the ultimate goal.

LuckyShadow or George:

What do you use to test the AFCI CB's??

The test button....or a 'tester' and if so..what kind??

The Canadian Electrical code prohibits smokes on a circuit protected with an AFCI or GFCI. I have been wondering why the US and Canada differ since most code rules for the two countries have the same intent regardless of the language use to write the rule.
CEC requires Smokes to be connected to a branch circuit that supplies a combination of plugs and lights. Lights being important since most people will turn the breaker back on if the lights don't work.

Mikesh, I suppose it comes down to two things: vocabulary, and design.

First, it is important to distinguish between "smoke detectors" and "fire alarm systems." The common household units, that have the sensor as well as the horn contained within, and where each unit has its' own battery back-up, is a "smoke detector."

The fancy systems that wire back to a little red panel, and are usually coupled with burglary alarms and monitored by an alarm company, are 'fire alarm systems.'

The distinction is critical, as our alarm code prohibits a fire alarm system from being GFCI or AFCI protected, and they are required to have a dedicated circuit.

Smoke alarms, by contrast, can be powered by any circuit - at least, in theory. However, these 'smokes' are required to all sound when one goes into alarm. In practice, this is accomplished by placing them on a dedicated circuit, and running an additional wire between the units so they can communicate.

Since we are required to have 'smokes' in every bedroom, and bedrooms were the first place AFCI's were required ... the 'smoke' circuit also was AFCI protected.

Code issues aside, we also have a trade practice of placing lights on a different circuit from the receptacles. There are two reasons for this preference: the first is that it is simply easier to have the sundry lights, even serving multiple rooms, and their switches on their own circuits. A secondary reason is the desire for a tripped breaker (serving an appliance) to not leave you in the dark.) Often, lights will be on a 15 amp circuit, while receptacles will be on 20 amp circuits.

I have an Ideal Suretest. That is not classified as a tester but rather a indicator. It does trip the AFCI breakers, which can come in handy on a 4 story townhouse. The only true and correct testing method is the test button on the breaker.
If I use the suretest I will reset the AFCI breakers that tripped and test them with the test button. I also trip the AFCI for the smokes. I test any and all AFCI or GFCI breakers in the panel by using the test button.

"When time was of an essence the resi inspectors here would trip the AFCIs on the way in, verify all bedroom outlets were dead (or a representative sample) then reset them on the way out."


We had at least one inspector that wouldn't do you the service of re-setting GFI's. I had a number of call backs that resulted.

Most common scenario: Inspector trips GFI and tests load side outlets. Moves on to bigger and better things. (according to more that one builder that and the panel labeling was all they checked)
Two days later HO moves all of their worldly possessions directly in front of GFI on garage wall, not noticing it's presence and completely obscuring it from view.
One more day later I get a call from builder complaining that a garage or exterior outlet isn't working.

It took me a couple of trips out to catch on and start diagnosing it over the phone.



I would have thought the remote AFCI testers would be capable of producing arcs and be the best test for an arc fault circuit.