ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area What is an "open ground"

I think the invention of Romex and other cable methods is what caused K&T to go by the wayside.

IMHO the presence of an open ground due to absence of an equipment ground is grounds to replace the 1920's K&T wiring method with a 2002 wiring method.
Remarked,
When I say replaced, buddy, I mean all of it. Those old houses are cool, and I love 'em, but if you are going to "overhaul" it, go all the way with it. That ground wire is the path that the current is going to take back to the source in a fault condition. It will save your life if properly installed.

I can't play...I'm grounded,
Doc

remarked
I strongly agree with The Watt Doctor that you should replace or rewire the entire home to current code. The reasons he has stated are good enough, but I would like to add that your home would also be more marketable when (if) you decided to sell. It appears that more and more lenders are beginning to require rewire of K&T before they will approve a loan.

Bob

I appreciate all your responses. We are pretty sure the house no longer has knob and tube. The electric on the 1st floor is older than the 2nd floor which was done we estimate in the 60's when the basement was remodeled into a livable part of the house. There are some grounded plugs and a GFCI in the bathroom. Some switches and plugs don't work and there are many 2 prong outlets or 3 prong not gounded. We are not exposing the walls downstairs like we are with the 1st floor. Do you think it adequate to put GFCI on the ungrounded 3 prong plugs with label "not grounded"? Is there a way to tap into the outlets that are gounded without major damage to the walls?

Tapping into grounded outlets and other ways of trying to save money ends up costing you more money in the end. It's not that difficult for an experiencec electrician to install new wiring with new outlets.

Why do they still make 2 prong plugs on electrical devices then? Does the larger prong make up for the lack of the 3rd prong? There are plugs in the rented house we live in that have a little sticky label on them saying GFCI Protected Outlet. But they look like a regular plug. Are these those plugs that are not actually grounded but will interupt the current flow?

Remarked,
I would love to be able to further advise you about your house, but without being there, I can't. I'm sure the other members would chime in with a hardy amen as well. If there were a few of us there, I'm sure that we wouldn't all agree about what needs to be done.
At minimum all 2 wire outlets that are replaced with 3 prong outlets shall be the GFI type, or shall be suppied by a GFI. They shall be marked “No Equipment Ground”, or if supplied through a GFI shall be marked “No Equipment Ground” and "GFI Protected".
The other alternative is to replace them with 2 wire (2 prong) receptacles. 2 prong receptacles are still legal.
By the way, the larger prong is for "polarity". Some equipment is designed in such a way that the "way" in which it plugs into the outlet is important.
At this point in the game, I think you need an electrician.
I do want to encourage you to get a digital camera, take pictures, and post them so we can look at the progress, and possibly give you advice on specific items.
Another thing I would encourage is to not be afraid to take out sheetrock if it is called for. The only problem with your house is that it is probably done with "ship lap" in the walls, but anway, don't be afraid to tear something out. In the long run, you will be better off for having done it.

Good Luck,
Doc

I think I speak for everyone that the watt doctor has the right idea here. Get that camera.

I appreciate all your responses. I am learning a lot. We do have a digital camera and will be going to the house this coming weekend and will take pictures.

If you really want to learn, I'd like to suggest a book that I found to be extremely informative. It's called "House Wireint with the National Electric Code: by Ray C. Mullin, Delmar Publishers. It will really help you understand a not only the right ways to do things, but also the reasoning behind the NEC.

At ther very least, it will help you make better decisions and also to make sure that you can keep the electrician(s) you work with in check. It may also be helpful for any small projects that you may someday decide to tackle. Given your situation, I think it will certainly pay for itself in both the cost of the book, and also the time spent reading it.

There were two versions last time I looked, one bigger than the other and about twice the cost. I got the smaller ($25) version and refer to it any time I need a reference. The larger one looked to me to be a more thorough version of the smaller, but didn't cover many more topics.

This book is far better, IMHO, than the Black & Decker, Time Life, etc. books that you're likely to see at your local home improvement store. But unlike those books, it doesn't have all the photos of how to do smaller tasks like changing light fixtures.