ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Made in China

I once saw made-in-china pliers that wouldn't even open halfways. Our made-in-china $35 rotary hammer drill worked nice, except for two problems. 1: It had a drill stop option for chiseling, but the chisel would still move freely. 2: After short use the switch failed and the company wasn't able to neither repair nor replace. However, heatgun from the same manufacturer works perfect. So I guess it's also a great deal of luck.

"It seems as though 99% our 2x4 layins are made(assembled)in Mexico"

No believe it or not that would cost too much. Lay-ins are still made here. Almost every town still has a "Metal Bender". At least in our area.

Did you know that the Labor Cost to produce a standard Lay-in is a whopping $ 2.70.

(9% Labor, 54% Materials is the average)

A safety mark (UL, ETL, MET, TUV, etc) only means a lab has reviewed a "representative sample" of the product and has decided it passes the applicable safety standard. The standard may have dozens or hundreds of requirements and tests, of which maybe only 3 or 4 tests are actually performed (using engineering judgement to determine what the problem areas might be for a given product). The safety report issued will indicate critical aspects of the product that cannot be changed without updating the safety report. This is often where the process breaks down. A manufacturer can legitimately change the product after the safety evaluation is complete. It's up to the manufacturer to know if that change requires retesting at the NRTL. The fee the NRTL charges may cloud that judgement. The NRTL will conduct regular audits of the listed manufacturing location. Hopefully any indiscretions will be caught in a factory audit, but the audit doesn't cover every product every year - just a random sample. Also, the responsible party for a product needs to be very careful that a 3rd party manufacturer(say for instance in China) doesn't take it upon themselves to cost reduce your product for you in the interest of putting a little extra dough in their own pocket. Could be thinner steel, lower grade hardware, cheaper plastic and insulation with inadequate flame ratings, ineffective shipping cartons, etc, etc.

I suspect that at certain test labs, there is more coffee drinking than testing. (speaking of...I better get back to work)

I'm going to voice some outrageoug opinions here, but my experiences support them:
-some places (Red China, for example) have a set of ethics that say "close enough" os OK, and have no tradition of standing behind their work. You buy it, it's yours, period. Not what you thought you were buying, represented as something else, too bad.
-some places have have only respect for someone who is clever enough to cheat them; they pride themselves in being so clever that they can, and do, cheat as a matter of course. You want UL sticker, we put UL sticker on. No problem. Also, what is UL?

So what to do? Be wary of products whose only US site is the sale office.
On the other hand, reputable US firms, with a reputation for quality, are sure to look carefully at whatever they put their name on.
Finally, know what things mean. UL tests to certain safety-related standards; whether something is a piece of junk or not is another issue entirely.

Talking about Standards and Safety...

Do any of you ever actually read the specs on stuff you are installing? Before you Buy it? ... and try to substitute it for something better if you know what to use?

What specs? A color picture on the cardboard box?


Btw... they can copy hologram stickers too..

Our Hardware stores are full of this junk,
people are just lapping up this rubbish.
It is bought cheap, in bulk, to make a tidy profit.
Just as a sideline, I had a NZ$850 Soft-starter, hooked up to a Pre-Breaker unit
(mulches up beef and pork bones, at the local Meat-works),long story short, the instructions were all in Chinese, no Schematic, not a word of English.
Hooked it up how I thought it should be connected, applied power, BOOM!!, one soft-starter, goes by the wayside, Not good enough!, lets bring back local manufacturing
for Godsakes.

Although the "imitation" luminaires are usually poorly constructed, we've got some domestic companies (try Simkar of PA) that can almost out-Chinese the Chinese.
As long as the fixture doesn't fall apart when installed, or the lampholder doesn't twist out when it's relamped, there's really not a major safety issue, is there?
I believe the scary part is that as stated GFI's and the like are being sold here.
The Big Box carries a line of Chinese C/Bs (which, BTW, showed up in the Southeast with some fake U/Ls some time ago). They make replacements for such winners as "Stab-lok", "Pushmatic", and the Zinsco type "Z", as well as some others.
A copy of an OCPD that has such a bad track record anyway is a very frightening thing to me. They shouldn't be allowed to sell this type of thing to the unwary.
(And yes, Fredmeister, I do read the specs on every part I use, always)...S

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 12-06-2002).]

ELECTURE: As long as the fixture doesn't fall apart when installed, or the lampholder doesn't twist out when it's relamped, there's really not a major safety issue, is there?
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Had that happen years ago with a ceiling fan my mom bought from Macys when I was still a teenager. Everytime we would go to change the bulbs, the sockets would start twisting out off the nipples. It was an overpriced piece of crap.

We replaced some of the sockets with improved models but to no avail.

Eventually my mom called one day from work and told me to take the fan out and re-install the original porcelain lampholder that was there when we moved in. I gladly did so.

Needless to say, I wasn't very careful with that fan after I undid the splices in the the fixture box. Ever let a ceiling fan motor just ... drop?

Electure:
I'm with you...there is some crap made here also. Had a real great $$ on 18 cell 2x4 lay-ins. Specs are the same as the "spec brand" said the supplier. I took the bait..ok'd the order. Had the delivery on-time...hey, a home run???
Well, now I know what happens to all the aluminum cans that we have to recycle....
If you look at the parabolic too hard, it's bent out of shape.. flimsy is being generous.

190 of the damn things, 73 bad parabolics; took 2 weeks to get replacements.

Live & learn.

I have noticed that some of the chinese made tools now available are of increasingly good quality. I suspect that this trend will continue.

I'm just old enough to remember another version of this discussion, but with one difference. "Made in Japan" instead of "Made in China".