ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Increasing demand factors in residential
by gfretwell - 03/28/24 12:43 AM
Portable generator question
by Steve Miller - 03/19/24 08:50 PM
Do we need grounding?
by NORCAL - 03/19/24 05:11 PM
240V only in a home and NEC?
by dsk - 03/19/24 06:33 AM
Cordless Tools: The Obvious Question
by renosteinke - 03/14/24 08:05 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 276 guests, and 14 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#178366 05/29/08 12:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline OP
Member
I need to install a step-up transformer from a 240 panel to get 480 volts for 3-phase equipment. No 277 required. However, in order to avoid the debate about grounded v. ungrounded 480 v. 3 phase 3 wire delta, I'm thinking about specifying a 277/480Y secondary and grounding the neutral, but not using it.

Comments, please?

Thanks,
John

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
Member
Probably not economic.

Stay with a pure delta-delta transform.

Monitor the power for phase loss.

Is this a VFD driven load?


Tesla
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
S
Member
If you're worried, why not just use a delta-wye transformer, ground the secondary neutral, and just not run a 4th wire? If you don't have to worry about phase shift, it's really the way to go.

Though the coils in a delta secondary aren't grounded, the core is, and magnetic core conductance and reactance will hold a delta secondary near equal potential, especially if the phases are balanced. Think of it like a wye-wye with a high impedance ground on the neutral.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,923
Likes: 32
G
Member
Corner ground it?


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline OP
Member
Thanks guys!

I hesitate to corner ground the delta because 480 to ground concerns me. However, I'm not sure I want to float the delta either, hence my question.

However, a delta wye step-up xfmr seems to be special order and costs a premium. I will let the customer decide.

The other question...

The xfmr rep. says that although their step-down xfmr can be connected backwards, the inrush will be 10X primary current. A true step-up xfmr inrush would be 4-5X primary current, but a true step-up xfmr would cost more.

I am concerned about tripping primary OCPD if I connect backwards.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
Member
The power calculations on three phase transformers are identical to three phase motors. ( Truly identical )

So just treat the transformer as if it were a motor load and protect it accordingly from the high side.

You'll still need protection on the secondary ( higher ) side because transformer faults still have to be guarded against. Use the Separately Derived System rules.


Tesla
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 7
Member
Redsy:
FWIW, I never had an issue with a back-feed on 75 to 150 kva 480-120/208 delta/wye xfrs. All were for 480 machine loads; balance was not an issue.


John
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline OP
Member
Thanks everyone.

Thanks John,

Do you prefer to corner ground, or float the 480 volt side?

Last edited by Redsy; 06/02/08 07:12 PM.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
If you don't want to ground a delta secondary solidly but are concerned about just letting stray capacitances balance out the voltage to ground on the phases, how about using a bank of three resistors to provide a ground reference?

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 7
Member
Redsy:
I float the 480 side. 3 phase, 3 wire.


Last edited by HotLine1; 06/03/08 03:46 PM.

John

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5