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Joined: Jul 2004
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Are you sure the ground is not cut off at the jacket? You might be able to snake up enough slack to get to it.
Even when they used 3 prong plugs a lot of electricians would go ahead an terminate that ground wire in the box or back strap of a bakelite receptacle. Those who were baffled would just cut off the ground wire


Greg Fretwell
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LK Offline
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Originally Posted by NORCAL
If you extend a existing 3 wire dryer/range receptacle,wouldnt you need to bring it up to compliance w/ current code(s) since 250.140 applies to EXISTING installations and if one extends it IMO it would no longer be existing....


Yes it should be brought up to code, too ,many guys afraid to tell the homeowner, it should be code compliant, not wanting to open the walls or spend the money, is not a valid reason, to ignore the code

Last edited by LK; 04/14/08 09:11 PM.
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I did see 10/3 w/ no EGC installed in the 90's....

Joined: Oct 2006
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I can't imagine how many places I've seen with 10/3 for dryers and 6/3 for ranges with no EGC around here. I remember installing those types of cable back in the 1970's by the thousands of feet in new construction. I remember buying a roll of 6/3 Romex and being asked "with or without". Like a Philly cheesesteak.

Aluminum SEU became more economical in the early 80's. We ran a ton of that too for the same appliances. We even ran 8/3 SEU for water heaters in new construction. I shake my head at the idea of using that cable for water heaters these days.

My house was built in late 1992 (1993 for all intensive purposes). My range and dryer were wired with three conductor aluminum SEU cable. When I installed a generator, I replaced the feed to the range with 6/3 (3 conductor w/ground) Romex since the range was now behind a sub-panel.

Sorry to drift off-topic, but there are so many tens of thousands upon thousands of 3-wire range/dryer circuits out there that haven't killed anyone. I'd tend to think that homeowners confused by the 3 / 4 wire convention will cause more harm due to failure to remove the bonding screw/strap when connecting a major appliance.

Mixing bonding and grounding with current-carrying conductors is a subject that the general public will never completely understand, nor will the debate regarding this subject ever end.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
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Originally Posted by LK
Originally Posted by NORCAL
If you extend a existing 3 wire dryer/range receptacle,wouldnt you need to bring it up to compliance w/ current code(s) since 250.140 applies to EXISTING installations and if one extends it IMO it would no longer be existing....


Yes it should be brought up to code, too ,many guys afraid to tell the homeowner, it should be code compliant, not wanting to open the walls or spend the money, is not a valid reason, to ignore the code


Good point Les,
You guys are lucky that you don't have "Self-Certification" over there, you can marry yourself to all sorts of problems if you either don't inform the Home-owner or blindly install something that would never pass an Inspection.
With Self-Certification, you are audited every March and are asked to send in a certain percentage of your Certificates of Compliance to the Registration Board here, an Independant Inspector will look at your CoC's and will then look at the work done.
There have been Electricians AND Inspectors de-registered with the audit system, here, it keeps everyone honest, to a degree.
Just my $0.02 worth.

Joined: Jan 2003
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LK Offline
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Mike,

The way it stands now, I think many are confused on what to do, but the code is clear, run the 4 wire, however there are many guys that will stay with the 3 wire, as one one of the posters noted, the internal wiring in the dryer, must be checked also, my feeling was if the existing feed is 3 wire, then replace the dryer with a 3 wire plug, the problem is if you do that now, your in violation, and that spells liability, a am sure, you will still find plenty of hacks to do whatever you want.

Last edited by LK; 04/15/08 04:50 PM.
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[quote=LK
Yes it should be brought up to code, too ,many guys afraid to tell the homeowner, it should be code compliant, not wanting to open the walls or spend the money, is not a valid reason, to ignore the code [/quote]

(acknowledge, "not a valid reason")

"Afraid" OF WHAT? Some "jamoke" under bidding you?
Simple example of us all "chocking" each other (castrateing if you will).

Code is the code. Responsability is responsability.

If you don't have the "nads" or conviction to do it right... Do something else.

AFRAID my @##. It's your license, your house your Family!
Do it correctly or stay away!

One way. the correct way.
And the sooner we all accept that. The better off we all will be.
When "Joe" home " Improvement" guy screws up. His/their problem.

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Originally Posted by leland
[quote=LK
Yes it should be brought up to code, too ,many guys afraid to tell the homeowner, it should be code compliant, not wanting to open the walls or spend the money, is not a valid reason, to ignore the code


(acknowledge, "not a valid reason")

"Afraid" OF WHAT? Some "jamoke" under bidding you?
Simple example of us all "chocking" each other (castrateing if you will).

Code is the code. Responsability is responsability.

If you don't have the "nads" or conviction to do it right... Do something else.

AFRAID my @##. It's your license, your house your Family!
Do it correctly or stay away!

One way. the correct way.
And the sooner we all accept that. The better off we all will be.
When "Joe" home " Improvement" guy screws up. His/their problem. [/quote]

They are afraid they will loose the job, to some hack that will do anything, if they suggest the walls have to be opened.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
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Why open walls? 99% of the time thats not needed. We're not Plumbers.

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
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The last 2 new dryers I hooked up didn't have the strap to be removed. They where all ready for the 4 wire dryer cord. I guess the manufactures can save 2 cents by compling, and not putting the strap in.

Ob


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
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