ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Building Codes for Electricians Kitchen Hoods (Commercial)

200.7(C)(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.

Reno,


A) Tells us where exit signs and 'bugeyes' are needed?

B) Tells us when we need to use the red putty pads on our boxes?

C) Tells us that piping inside a walk-in cooler can't be run flat on the surface?

D) Tells us we can't use lots of recessed (incandescent) lights?

E) Tells us where to place the alarm strobes?


I am not in my office yet, but I believe a lot of these questions can be answered in the NFPA for example, where to put exit and emergency would depend on the footcandles required at the means of egress.

When to use putty pads comes down to the fire rating of the wall. If the wall has to be fire rated, you must make sure that there aren't too many openings between the walls. Same goes for recess lights. I was on 1 job where you couldn't have more than 10 sq feet inside a 100 sq ft area. So the job was limited to 4 recess lights per room.

As for running a pipe inside a walk in cooler, I am not sure that I have heard that one before.

Harold:
The pipe parallel and tight to the box finish wall/ceiling I believe is a Health issue (NSF) for cleaning.

Rated walls & ceilings are limited to 100 square inches, per 100 square feet. Found within the UL White Book. Some info is within the UL for various mfg device boxes.

Putty pads are a solution to boxes on adjacent sides of a rated wall within 24" of each other, or any other penetrations in said wall.

Egress is within NFPA and Building here in NJ

Alarm strobes and pulls are NFPA.

Reno overlooked ADA requirements? Utility Co requirements?

John is right about the NSF issue. The intent here is to allow easy cleaning and not create crevices where nasties can hide from the cleaning crew.

I have to chuckle at your cooler requirements and the conduits not laid flush on the walls. I have dealt with many coolers, many are large buildings and for us, conduit flush on the surface is not an issue, but then again, our coolers are for trees, not food for human consumption. Well, I guess nuts may be harvested much later in the trees growth.

In other words, there are always different requirements and it is always good for someone to place those somewhere in the plans for clarity. I will try to remember on my plans to refer to the plans showing the fire ratings which I think will be helpful for those who install.

The NFPA is a publishing house - nothing more - and sells all manner of books they call 'codes.' The NEC is only one of these codes.

Even so, there are many codes that have no connection with the NFPA at all.

For example, while the NFPA does discuss bugseye placement in their 'life safety code,' it is the non-NFPA "Building Code" (IBC/UBC) that is actually adopted and enforced. The entire 'egress lighting' issue originates in the ICC "building code."

Ditto for the use of putty pads; it's a 'building code' issue.

How things are mounted in a cooler is discussed in the health code. While a USDA code exists, it is the local code, and the local interpretation, that governs.

Likewise, the hood installation will have to be approved by the local fire marshall. It's rather interesting, in that I have yet to find a jurisdiction that has actually adopted the NFPA 'hood codes.' Nor have I met the inspector who even has access to one - let alone read it! In such situations, anything you can produce will greatly help your case.

Which brings us to two of my pet peeves:
1) IMO, there are far too many codes= and inspecting agencies; and,
2) IMO, you simply cannot become a competent inspector by sitting in a classroom or going to seminars- you need to master the trade first. This trend to seminar-educated 'combination' inspectors is a travesty.

Yes, I 'overlooked' a few things

That only illustrates the need to know more - far more- than the NEC.

I made only passing reference to the other issues, and did not go into details, as those other items are not related to commercial hoods. The point that there is more than NFPA 70 in our lives was most relevant.

Remain ignorant of these other issues, and you get all manner of grief and call-backs. My own appreciation of these issues was greatly increased the day I became the 'owner' and could no longer charge for my time .

You better get used to combination inspectors. They are the ones most likely to have made it through the current building slowdown. When building departments downsize they will use the number of licenses as one of the prime factors of who to keep and who to let go. You can be the best electrical inspectors in the world but if you can't do the plumbing inspections they need to hire another guy. (same for mechanical and structural)

Reno said "That only illustrates the need to know more - far more- than the NEC"

Those are very true words!

Here in Nj we have the UCC (Uniform Construction Code) 5:23 et al, which is the "bible", and it still amazes me how many electrical contractors do NOT know it exists.

Short & sweet, it contains ALL statewide codes, with the exception of the local POCO requirements, along with ALL administrative requirements.

Yes, we as ECs, and electrical inspectors have to 'know' what is required, and who is responsible for enforcement of what.

Anyone who has any interest in looking at it, it's at the NJ DCA website. (Link to follow)

John,


I was in business over 15 years ago and quite frankly, I don't think I remember the UCC being as important back then as it is now with the "Rehab" code, etc.

Greg,

Unfortunately it is true what you and Reno said about the AHJ's and I believe that every AHJ should have been in the field. Yet in my state of NJ, if you hold multiple lic. you have a better chance of being employed.