The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured Items:

Switch Bit - Interchangeable Flex Bit System
>> Switch Bit -
Interchangeable Flex Bit System

>> 2014 NEC and Related

Recent Posts
Do I need a disconnect?
by gfretwell
Today at 09:56 AM
Someone's Awake at Milwaukee
by mikethebull
10/22/14 06:40 PM
3-way photosensor switch control
by JoeTestingEngr
10/22/14 04:56 PM
Inverter/Charger advice
by LarryC
10/21/14 06:44 PM
The elusive AFCI device??
by SparksFlying
10/21/14 01:56 PM
New in the Gallery:
Drunks and a transformer, what could go wrong?
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 39
HotLine1 20
wewire2 10
renosteinke 9
Tesla 8
Who's Online
2 registered (Tesla, HotLine1), 164 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#175117 - 02/22/08 07:24 PM cat 5 conduit fill
wacked Offline
Member

Registered: 12/19/06
Posts: 33
Does anybody know where I can get info on conduit fill in relation to data wires? I can find nothing on it in the Canadian electrical code. How many Cat 5 can one put in a 1 inch conduit etc....

Top
Study Guides for VDV / Structured Cabling Installers
#175125 - 02/22/08 08:17 PM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: wacked]
SP4RX Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada...eh
I have pulled 8 into a 3/4" conduit once and it wasn't too hard to pull in through 2 90's...so I'm gonna guess you could pull 12...13...14?...I dunno.

I don't think that the CEC is concerned with conduit fill in this instance since you are dealing with low voltage. (non-heat-producing)


Shawn.

Top
#175150 - 02/23/08 08:54 AM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: SP4RX]
hbiss Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 893
Loc: Hawthorne, NY USA
Conduit fill for LV and fiber cables should always be obtained from the manufacturer of the cable. Of importance here is pulling tension, nothing else. Putting too much stress on a cable while pulling it will damage it.

-Hal
_________________________
www.myphonetechs.com

Top
#175152 - 02/23/08 09:07 AM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: hbiss]
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 807
Loc: Michigan
take OD x OD x .7854 of each Data or Cable that well get you the Sq. inch for fill calculations. Then go to Chaper 9 table 4 Percentage fill charts .

Example 6 cad 5 at .25 dia.(what ever the Dia. is)
.25x.25x.7854=.04908
.04908x6=.2945
3/4 emt at 40 % fill (see Chaper 9 table 1)=.213 to small
1 inch at 40 % fill =.346 so I'd use 1inch EMT

Works for me.

Top
#175170 - 02/23/08 04:45 PM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: Yoopersup]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5034
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Hbiss is on the right track.

It's not simply a matter of applying NEC tables, and other rules, to datacom wire. The NEC was never intended for such applications.

For example, typical Cat 5 specs limit your pulling force to 25 lbs ... total. It matters not how many cables are being pulled, 25 lbs is the limit.

Another insight may be obtained from phone co. specs for their lines. They'll want a 4" pipe, with a maximum of 2-90's in bends, for a single 25 pair line. (A 25 pair line is something like 5/8" OD).

Finally, I recently pulled a single 3-pair cat 3 cable through a 1/2" PVC pipe to a detached garage. While the pipe seemed plenty large, the pull was harder than I expected. It's the last time I'll make that mistake .... I think I'll START with 1" for any but the shortest cable drops.

Top
#175173 - 02/23/08 06:18 PM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: renosteinke]
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 807
Loc: Michigan
The Nec your right is not Made for data as far as wire fill ect but its sure better then the way most do it. That is hold a bunch of wires in there hand and see how many fit in the pipe, forgetting they'll be pulling around bends and 90's. Been working for me for years pullings great. as far as Phone company a 25 pair in a 4 inch is a joke .That 4 inch at 51 percent fill would fit easly in a 1 1/4 inch . Thats just there way if we all went by fillpercentage instead of Geeee What well fit I;ll try this.


Edited by Yoopersup (02/23/08 06:19 PM)

Top
#175178 - 02/23/08 08:53 PM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: Yoopersup]
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 8434
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I suppose a lot depends on what the jacket is made of.
PVC is always a hard pull (like Romex)
If you had teflon it would pull easier but it costs more.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#175192 - 02/24/08 10:40 AM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: gfretwell]
hbiss Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 893
Loc: Hawthorne, NY USA
Then go to Chaper 9 table 4 Percentage fill charts...as far as Phone company a 25 pair in a 4 inch is a joke.

If you want to do another trades job you have to stop thinking like an electrician and learn how that work is done. The question of LV conduit fill comes up frequently and the replys are always along the lines of "think of a THHN size that is similar and go to chapter 9 of the NEC". I don't know how many times we have said that this is wrong. You may get your cables pulled and they may even work but most likely they are no longer in spec.

-Hal
_________________________
www.myphonetechs.com

Top
#175195 - 02/24/08 12:32 PM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: hbiss]
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 807
Loc: Michigan
I've NEVER EVER seen Data people with a Stress Gage on there wire pulls , Also they pull thru LB;s which does not meet most required pulling radias , Also most hire Kids to pull and install there wiring with no traning at all. As well as Proper Supports Forgets it they usually tie wrap to anything they can. Most Electricans install Data Cables far more correctly then the data people I;ve worked around and with. By the way do you use a Stress gage on yer pulls, and watch radias on pulls . :)))
Just telling it the way it is in the real world . Been
there done that

YoopersUP

Top
#175198 - 02/24/08 03:15 PM Re: cat 5 conduit fill [Re: Yoopersup]
hbiss Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 893
Loc: Hawthorne, NY USA
By the way do you use a Stress gage on yer pulls,

I've got calibrated elbows.

Believe me, you should have no trouble estimating pulling tension once you have been doing it. It's just like estimating how much something weighs. Problem is most installers, especially electricians think they are pulling THHN and yank the hell out of it because they don't know any better. That includes untrained data installers.

-Hal


Edited by hbiss (02/24/08 03:24 PM)
_________________________
www.myphonetechs.com

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals