ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Violation Photo Forum fire

hello everyone...here's a pic of a fire I had in my house (rented thankfully) last night in the master bedroom. some idiot ran wire pinched behind the baseboards...i guess too lazy to drill holes through studs. could have killed my family...i noticed the power was out upstairs ..the breaker was tripped. I noticed a slight burn smell upstairs but could not pin point the cause..after a few trips upstairs my cat was sitting on the floor starring at the baseboard and meowing..I kick a hole in the baseboard and saw nothing but red hot wood....scary...ran down stairs and grabbed the extingusher...it did the trick...but just in time....
https://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jlive11/DSC02080.jpg

Give that cat extra rations and fresh mice for the rest of his life, thanks to him you still have yours. Glad you and your family are okay. The idiot that ran that wire should be drawn and quartered.

Mmm, looks like balloon-framing and an in-wall fire, perfect combination. Good thing you and the kitty cat found this.

BTW, welcome to ECN. One thing to note, whevever you want a picture posted, either send it to a moderator/the webmaster, or read this thread ( https://www.electrical-contractor.n...showflat/Number/170308/page/1#Post170308 ) to use the ECN photo upload site.

Ian A.

A little off topic here, but what is baloon framing Ian? I have never heard of it.

Good stuff Jimmy.
That cat has earned his supper.

1) "Balloon Framing" is another name for the typical 2x4 stud framing you see here.

2) I need to save that pic, for every time some DIY or handyman extols the virtue of hiding wires under the molding!

WOW! You and your family are very VERY lucky! I have to say I have a new respect for Cats!
Anyway I think youbest be looking over what electrical you can see in your house just to see if anything is obviously wrong and to judge what kind of workmanship exists behind the drywall!

A.D

thanks for the reply's everyone...sorry i did'nt properly introduce myself to the forums....I have been a lurker here for quite some time....I;m a fire alarm tech (Edwards), I'm no electrician.....but know what was done here was seriously wrong. the circuit continued on pretty much under the carpet to a plug beside the bed (pic). I'm looking for a new place to live (can you blame me?) only been here for 3 months. the house was only re-wired 6 months ago....scary stuff
thanks

What Province are you in

ontario
in the first pic the cut out in the wall and floor was from the fire dept who i called to make sure the fire was completely out after i pit the extinguisher to it... I did'nt get a good look at the wiring method used until after they left....i live in a rural area and it was a volunteer fire dept...I thought they would have noticed the how it was wired...but they did'nt
thanks

Balloon framing is where the wall studs run from the sill plate(foundation) to the roof. Instead of building a outside wall to outside wall platform at each level, the floors are "hung" off of the wall studs.

This is very convient when running wires up the walls because there are none of those pesky "fire breaks" that you have to drill thru. On the other hand, if a fire starts in the wall, it has an easy path to get up to the top stories.

Larry C

Home owner and NOT a construction trades worker.

Rewired? That's rewired?! I hate to see this house's service.

Ian A.

the service at the panel is actually somewhat neat and appears to be proper...it's where the wiring dissappears into the walls that is the concern...after the fire last night i have investigated several areas in the house and found nothing but bunk workmanship...for example in the laundry room the light fixure is screwed to the ceiling with no electrical box whatsoever (1" x 1" hole cut in drywall to allow wiring to light) this is alot worse than expected....i'm now almost certain there was no permit pulled for any of this work...i need to be carefull tho.....I need a place to live until i can find something better.... maybe i should have let the place burn to the ground when I had the chance.....

"the house was only re-wired 6 months ago....scary stuff"

In the interest of you and your neighbors, whoever "re-wired" this.
His name should be dropped to the authorities. Put it on his insurance not yours!

BTW, Welcome, and glad all is ok.

Balloon framing predates the platform-type framing that most of us are familiar with. Studs go from foundation to roof. Intervening floor joists are hung off a ledger that is let into the studs. Nowadays, we make a plywood platform on floor joists and then frame up from that for each storey.

Did anyone see the 'Holmes on Homes' episode where the house was balloon-framed? Mike Holmes admitted he had never seen that sort of thing before.

Sorry, LarryC, I didn't see your post. Oh, well...

This isn't the first time I got punked by a page change.

I'm sure the insurance company will peg the "sparky" for that one... Just send them the pictures, and his contact info. Of course, there is the possibility that they drop you until everything is re-wired (properly) AGAIN.

Balloon Framing was a technique that gained popularity around Chicago as lumber sizes became standardized.
the studs ran all the way to the top of the building and notches were then cut into them to accept a 1X4 which would be the support for the floor joists which were also notched to fit over the 1X and then also nailed to the stud

I you can picture that, it also made a very nice plenum from the basement to the roof ! fire would eventually burn the whole city down in a very short time. you may have read about it.

the solution was to install "fire stops" which was nothing more than blocking between the studs, at right around 48" ,
which always made remodeling EVERYTHING residential in and around Chicago an exercise in ingenuity, alternating with frustration and rage, because a lot of bathrooms and kitchens also had tile to ran up to 50" try not breaking that stuff as you cut through tile, plaster, wire lath, and the damn firestop

It's obvious whats wrong with that pic,the plate on rec is not flush to the wall!!How dare them mess up such a professional installation!

Balloon framing is a type of framing with vertical members running all the way from the basement up to the attic without any horizontal framing members - perfect for spreading a fire. I'm not absolutely sure this is ballon framed though - looks like the floor/ceiling extends into the wall

Now .... for the BIG question .... would Arc-fault current interrupting breakers have prevented this?

Maybe. This is, naturally, exactly the sore of thing for which they are advocated. Yet ....

Advancing technology is no excuse for madly improper methods. Under earlier (pre-AFCI) rules, this fire would not have happened had:
- The installer been qualified; and,
- Had the cable been properly supported and protected.

Sort of like the driver who feels comfortable driving faster in snow 'because I've got 4 wheel drive,'... I fear that one result of this 'safer' wiring technology will be the casual reliance on that technology to compensate for taking additional chances.

Another successful cat scan...

See, a cat is man's best friend.....

Unlike a dog, it buries it's poop.

It doesn't typically attack the mailman or howl.

It's great fun when paired with a laser pointer.

It reduces the bird population and thus the number of droppings on your car.

It rids your house of mice and rats that cause arc faults in attics.

In addition to that, your cat may be able sniff out electrical fires in the wall caused by MORONS attempting to wire a house as seen in the above post.

Nice cat!

Exactly my opposition to the change!!

HARDWADEGUY: Back off the dogs! They have a usefull purpose, For example....ummmm...wait I'm thinking.

Most important: cats don't bark your ears off out of pure joy! One workmate of mine occasionally brought his dog to the office and when she'd bark suddenly she gave half of the people near heart attacks. She's a real nice dog, but barking in a quiet office... we just couldn't get over that. Wearing shorts and suddenly experiencing a wet, cool nose on your knees under your desk can be fairly startling too...

I like hardwareguy's approach ...

IMO, preventing a fault from happening if far preferable to taking action once it happens.

Therefore, let's drop the AFCI requirement .... and replace it with a cat requirement!

We just had a similar incident. We got called for "fire coming out of a box".

We showed up and found a light haze and definite smell of a fire. Didn't see any fire in any of the vents, so we went downstairs, and found the 1st floor burning near a bx run that was hidden behind a vent pipe. Luckily the resident was home and we caught it before it caught everything.

After it was out, we looked at the room. Seems they removed the wall that used to define the closet in an attempt to lengthen the room, as evidenced by the missing flooring that had been concealed by the carpeting. Well, what do we normally put into walls longer than 24"?

Yep... turns out when they dropped the wall, they just cut 7 taped the wires and stuffed the BX down in to the gap left by the sole plate. It was fine for many years until wear and tear caught up with it.

The sad thing? the BX originated from an octagon box about 18" away from the floor penetration... and it was the only branch off that circuit. They could have d/c'd it at the box with almost no effort, and no interruption of anything else.