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#172808 - 12/27/07 08:42 AM 422.52 NEW section
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
In the 2008 NEC there is a new section 422.52. It requires GFI protection for Fountains. Drinking Fountains.
I thought this was resolved several years ago when the definition of Fountain in Article 680 clearified that it did not apply to drinking fointains.
This was the result of some inspectors requiring GFI protection at Drinking Fountains . Unless people were wading in the fountain, GFI was considered unneeded. \:\)
Now they stick it in 422. One person reportedly died from a drinking fountain incident, because the ground prong was cut off the cord !
It is becoming an embarassment to enforce the Code with a straight face.
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

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#172822 - 12/27/07 01:55 PM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: Alan Nadon]
ausador Offline
Member

Registered: 03/26/07
Posts: 49
Loc: Central Florida
Not having the read the new article I am limited in my ability to comment upon it intelligently.

That being said however....what is wrong with requireing GFCI protection for drinking fountains? I have been at this a while and can remember three specific instances where I did calls that involved energized fountains. While no one died or was seriously harmed, in principle they could have been.

Sort of reminds me of the resturant kitchens I have been to where they warned you that the cooler/freezer would shock you if you touched it while grounded. Yet they continued to use them and only mentioned it as ancillary to the reason I was there on a call.

Chilled water drinking fountains contain both a compressor and a condensor, a condensate tray often with electric heat, and other sometimes electrically powered controls. They also are subject to vibration because of the compressor which could lead to cable wear and fatigue at terminals.

Once upon a time when all drinking fountains were connected rigidly to both a metallic supply and metallic drain both of which were grounded these concerns had no merit. Any fault within the appliance would constitute a ground fault sufficent to trip the branch circuit breaker. This is no longer true however.

You may continue to enforce the code with a straight face, drinking fountains are exactly the type of appliance that can benefit from GFCI protection.

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#172826 - 12/27/07 03:10 PM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: ausador]
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
I can't see this requirement as a bad thing.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#172830 - 12/27/07 04:39 PM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: iwire]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Thats fine. GFCI, within 6' of a sink. But nothing within 6" of your face?

I think it is over due.

Tamper resistant and AFCI.... I won't go there now.

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#172839 - 12/27/07 06:15 PM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: leland]
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6220
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Alan:
I have to concur with all of the above. GFI protection cannot cause any 'problems', and the cost factor is negligable.

Now, how about one of the MFG coming out with a single receptacle GFI device? 15 & 20 amp...and make the $$ comparable with a faceless/deadfront OR a decent duplex GFI
_________________________
John

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#172840 - 12/27/07 06:29 PM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: HotLine1]
leland Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 856
Loc: Lowell area, Ma. USA
Breaker for this application I think is best.
No covers to remove etc.But a single would be nice.

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#172929 - 12/30/07 06:41 AM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: leland]
Obsaleet Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 361
Loc: Pa
I think I will submit a proposal to use tamper resistant GFCI receptacles every where and make it easy for everyone. No exception for GFCI breakers(lol)
Ob
_________________________
Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.

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#172934 - 12/30/07 09:25 AM Re: 422.52 NEW section [Re: Obsaleet]
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5016
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Funny ... sometimes I'm tempted to propose that we all return to the 1966 edition, without ammendments ....

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