ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Canadian Electrical Code Topics Canadian licences

I am not trying to argue or start a debate but.......it is not an electrical inspector that enforces what lisence is allowed to work for a contractor. It is the Ministry of Labour. As well.....how many times has an electrical inspector asked to see what license you posses while working for a contractor or on a job site? My guess and experience would probably tell me none. I have only been asked by the Ministry of Labour.
The facts that I have given are straight from an inspector while taking the Masters course.
442a is not regulated like a 309a. A plant is a privatly owned establishment where as in construction and maintenance (309a) you are working for contractors which in turn work in public buildings where the general public are exposed to.
Both licenses are great to have.....thats why I have both...but I am more sought after having a 309a.

i just talked to the esa about contractors employing non licensed people and they say that is fine for non qualified people doing elec. work but godforbid a journeyman cannot do wiring for somebody and take out a permit simply because they are not a registered contractor this is completely (expletive deleted) they are only worried about taxes for the govt. not peoples safety.

I TOTALLY AGREE with homer jones!!! It is BUll.... that I can not do simple side jobs to help support my family without taking the risk of getting fined!!!!! We are the only trade in Ontario that are fully qualified to do their job but cannot without spending thousands of dallars first (just to do a basement reno or move a plug). I can see the point from contracotrs about how they are paying all the insurance and liability just to be undercut by a lisence guy wanting to do the same job for cheaper, but not allowing us to use our talents even when we take out permits is crap!
I also think that it is crap that anyone can go to a big box store or such and become an electrician in one of thier 20 minute DIY classes!!!! THAT SHOULD BE STOPPED! NOT THE QUALIFIED TRADESMEN!
As well, I also think it is CRAP that a non lisenced guy can write the masters exam, pass, then have a misleading title of Master Electrician without having one minute in the trade!!!
Can you tell that this is a touchy topic for me!!
We should as Electricians start some kind of petition to send to the Ontario government and ESA to reverse this money grab and try to find another method of controlling DYI people!!!!!!!
Mabey the legislatiopn should permit us to do a up to a certain scope of work but still require the insurance. That way contractors and guys who want to earn extra money on the side doing small jobs both win!
What do you guys in Ontario think???? SHall I start a petition? Would you sign it, or have any other ideas? Lets unite as electricians and take our Trade back!!

The goal of this legislation as I understand it was to standardize the licensing in Ontario. Previously all business licenses were a local responsibility. Anyone who paid the license fee could call themselves a licensed electrician. They wanted a standard province wide licensing system with qualification behind it.

In response to Mr. Electrician, There are many reasons licensed electrical contractors are the one who can take out permits. I have heard about this money grab time and time again, however this amount is insignificant in an overall sense and significantly cheaper if you are sued. The current regulation enacted beginning Jan. 2007 also allows homeowners to take permits out for their own home as well as industry employing an electrician on their payroll. My costs for licensing as an electrical contractor are as follows:(all yearly costs) $350.00 Contractor license from ESA; $750.00 for insurance; and WSIB costs (if employees) are all requirements for the contractors license from ESA. You also have to be up to date on your taxes as well. I realize license electricians know what they are doing on the job (most), however you still run the risk of being sued if the worst happens (unlikely, but true) as well insurance companies are requiring more paperwork everyday for their clients. Remember rules are often made to protect us from stupid people making stupid mistakes. I agree with you on seminars offered by HD, Rona, et.c, should not have any electrical themes. I dream of the day that the government or industry steps in and prevents any electrical materials from being sold to anyone without a license, or only sold at wholesalers. The current regulations passed in 2007 are a step in the right direction for reducing the black market/no permits jobs, however it is not the complete solution. Everything has a cost and spread out over many customers it doesn't become a concern.

heres a question if the owner of a hotel calls you up and says can you do some work for me ill hire you as a casual employee you do the work and the corp. will take out the necessary permit is this allowed and if so where does it say that in writing?

as for the petition youve got my signature.

I've never seen it in writing anywhere other than the Ontario health and safety act(little green book).It mentions restrictions on employee competence and i want to say it's page 573 but i can look it up later if you like.I also know maintenance workers at all the apartment buildings are doing there own electrical work.
As it stands in the hospital where i currently work any employee who claims to be competent and who is also deemed to be competent by management may work and trouble shoot up to 600v equipment.They must not work alone and a person who is certified in CPR and who can also perform the work be present.
Apparently because of bill c145 should someone get hurt criminal charges resulting in jail time and individual fines up to 100000 can be laid against management and even employees who look the other way when unsafe work practices are used.This bill was introduced in an attempt to make work places safer with out impeding the flow of business.However very few small employers understand the consequences and are not giving c145 proper respect.It really seems that if no one gets hurt the government doesn't care but as soon a it happens people can go to jail and lose there livelihood.Needless to say this hospital only puts licensed electricians on work above 240v
cheers

what im really after is can a hotel as an example or it could be a grocery store under corp ownership hire me a licensed electrician as casual labour to do electrical work. the hotel or grocery store whatever it happens to be then takes out a permit and i get around the contractor bull. anybody with factual info from the esa that can reply would be very helpful

I am not if you would be able to work at a grocery store chain or hotel chain doing electrical work just for the fact that those buildings are accessed by the general public. I know industrial is different because the building is not under normal operations accessed by the general public. Here if the plant manager feels that the broom pusher is competent to change out a 347V ballast, then legally that broom pusher can.
In responce to Thorahsparky.....I can't wait for the day that electrical materials will only be available to lisenced electricians. I am sure this issue is one that both contractors and electricians will agree on!!! I think that our market system is a little messed up when any DYI can go and buy any type of electrical equipment regardless of scope of work he will be performing and on the other end the general public needs a licence to buy hair dressing supplies such as hairspray and shampoo. Whats the deal with that??????