ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Apprentice Electrician Need help

Thanks everyone for your ideas. I'm going to wait until it happens aganin and start by checking the panel box (on the inside of the house) and the main breaker (on the outside of the house). Seems to me if I have a drop in voltage on one of the legs coming in to the main from the power company then it's the power companies problem. If I have a drop in voltage somehwere else in the main or the panel well then I can work backwords to find the problem.

Niko...yes I'm absolutely positive it's more than 1 circuit. The electric stove goes out, the washer but not the dryer, the furnace goes out, part of 1 bathroom, and one of the upstairs bedrooms. IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS ROUGHLY HALF THE HOUSE! The other half is fine.

What I don't understand, and maybe you guys can help me with this. I don't understand how this is possible? Can anyone explain how this could be?

Hi Chris,
Have you checked the Neutral busbar in the panel?
It sounds like there may be a couple of loose connections.
With a lot of calls to places with flickering lights and what-not, it's always been the screws holding the neutral wires into the busbar that have been to blame.
This problem really needs to be looked at in any case, a bad connection in any electrical system can be a potential fire waiting to happen.

Hi Trumpy. Yep I'm gonna check all that stuff as soon as it happens again. The lights don't hardly ever flicker however. The flickering usually precedes the power going off to roughly half the house. It also tends to usually happen at the same time of the day....early morning is when it usually happens when everyone is sleeping. It lasts usually about 10-15 minutes.

I don't think it could be loose screws as I have changed the panel recently and the problem did not go away.

I've got my multi meter laying out and the cover to the panel box off so I can quickly check everything as soon as it occurs. Usually it happens 2-3 times a week so I don't think it will be too long before I have more information.

But can anyone tell me how power to only half the house could go out? I would think it would be everything or nothing?

I want to try to rule out everything in the house before we call the power company.

If you lose one of the two legs feeding a subpanel then any circuit attached to that leg will de-energize but the circuits on the other leg remain energized.
I wouldn't rule out an iffy main breaker or whatever breaker is feeding your subpanel. I've had many calls where one leg of the breaker feeding a sub was intermittently or completely open. You can probably turn on lights on one of the effected circuits and go out and wiggle the breaker and see, or have someone see, if the lights flicker.

We get calls for this quite frequently, and 90% of the time it's where the poco splices to the mains coming into the service. A couple of simple questions usually will point me to a poco problem:
1. When does it happen? (eg. At dinner time when the stove is on, dishwasher is on drawing water from electric tank, and laundry is being done - all big loads)
2. What is affected? (more than one circuit, but all on same phase)

Check the poco splices at the house - from a distance you will often see that one leg has been overheated.

Twice I have found this in the meter pan, loose connection at the lugs.

This thread has been bothering some folks. Let me explain why.

An apprentice with 1 1/2 years of experience would have been mainly bending pipe, pulling wire, etc. If he's lucky, he might install some receptacles. He would not be doing service changes, or trouble shooting. Especially with a problem like this one.

An apprentice has his instructors and employer to ask for advice. Most I've known would like a problem like this to show off their skills.

The OP has not drawn on those resources. I have to wonder why. In the meantime, he needs to recognize that this is beyond his competence - and get some help. ECN is great, but we're not there.

I disagree. Chris21 chose to draw on ECN's resources, and we were there. Many in here like to show off their skills, and it's no different than any other troubleshooting questions that get posted in ECN.

An apprentice with 1.5 years of residential experience should have an understanding of how a basic household distribution system works, the hazards involved, and his limitations. My post was an opportunity for him to use some simple troubleshooting techniques without even picking up a tool. I can't see any harm in that.

It also depends on the apprentice. One does not have to follow the pace of the apprentice one might want to advance faster by asking questions and trying to better him/herself.
I don't see any problem with that and certainly there is no problem by asking someone with more experience.

My 2 cents.

First, I'd like to tell Chris21 welcome and that I commend his determination. He is in the right place to learn. This isn't meant to demean you in any way, nor downplay your experience. That you came here for help is good.

That said:
There hasn't been a single word of warning or safety in any of the replies. At 1-1/2 yrs of "apprenticeship" (whatever that may mean), doing only new residential construction, Chris may have never worked on anything that's even been energized before.
He may not HAVE an instructor to fall back on. His boss may have never done any troubleshooting at all; PA has no State licensing requirement, educational requirements, or exams.

The replies have suggested that he do everything from visual checks, which are great, installing octal base relays, to pulling the cover off of the meter pan and main while energized. (How about a frozen meter clip breaking off in his face to screw up his day?). These without a single warning, nor mention of safety equipment.

ECN has a good track record of responsibility and not suggesting unsafe practices. That record should remain intact.

Chris21, please stick around, ask more questions, and learn all of the things that we can teach you. You are the kind of guy that can probably benefit the most from the experiences that we have had. That's what we're about.