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2 members (Scott35, gfretwell),
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Key:
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
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I'm not even sure the indicator light works.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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I found the research that supports their claim:
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1766390
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
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I replied to him. Funny, the XFactor FAQ states pretty specifically that XFactor is a power correction capacitor.
I'm not interested in purchasing your product, I'm merely looking out for my fellow consumers. I'm an electrical engineer working commercial electrical systems, well aware of the purpose and function of power correction capacitors, and frequently use power factor correction capacitors far larger than the xpower plug-in model. I'm well aware of why and how it reduces measured current. What's clear is that you don't understand how your product works, and are lying to consumers if you persist in claiming that a power factor correction capacitor (with some small harmonics filtering) is going to have ANY impact on a residential electric bill. Not to mention that a typical residence already has a power factor of close to 1; if it didn't, you'd quickly overload and trip the 15A or 20A breaker on the receptacle circuit you plugged your capacitor into. Funny that the demo uses a large unloaded motor that you're not going to find in a house and that gives an exagerrated power factor- why not repeat that demonstration with a loaded garage door or garbage disposal motor so you can show the fraction of an amp difference for the 5 seconds it's on? Or with the purely resistive loads like hot water heaters, ovens and clothes dryers where it will have 0 impact?
By the way, Watts = Amps x Volts is false when talking about AC and power factor. The true equation is Watts = Intregration(Amps(t) x Volts(t) dt.) Or, for constant power factor: Watts = Amps x Volts x cos(phi). Placing a power factor correction capacitor on a circuit like this will decrease current and phase angle, but total kWh at the meter won't change. Since residential meters measure kWh (as opposed to kVAh), XFactor will make NO difference in the bill. In fact, it will actually increase bills by a small amount, due to internal resistance and leakage current in the capacitor.
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Joined: Mar 2005
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You can't fool your house meter, it ignores pf and just measures wh. If you could fool it, you'd be committing a fraud.
A wh meter reads guess what? Why, wh! You only get what you pay for. And you also pay for what you get.
The problems are:
1. When Joe buys one of these things to 'save money', he has it plugged in all the time to save the maximum! The effect of significant leading or lagging phase shift is that reactive power is wasted as heat in the whole system back to the poco, and that includes your house wiring. So all the time its on it's wasting energy. Not very green is it?
2. If there is any effect on a motor, [ and I am not informed enough to comment on what that effect might be ] it has to be to reduce its power, decrease its efficiency or raise the windings temperature. You will either have a product that does less, has to be used for longer or has a shorter life. Not looking good is it?
3. If significant amounts of leading pf get plugged in by consumers, the pocos will react in 2 ways to retain their bottom line. Put up prices or start adding apparent wattmeters to domestic supplies.
Alan
Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Like I said before, if they believe in their product, they should let a few go for free, especially to a certified electrician that expresses concern over the feasibility of their product. What better was to prove yourself.
His attempt to SELL the product "AT COST" is a clear indicator that his only concern is making money. If it was my product, and I believed in it, I would take skeptics head on and bring them over to my side to let the product sell itself.
This guy is a clown, and his product is crap.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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they need a rep that can actually speak with out get tongue tied lmfao
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Check this out... http://kutv.com/letbillbuyit/local_story_038185542.htmlThe TV station investigator says "...maybe $.05 per month..." but if you look at X-power's own website for the manual, it tells you that the damned thing CONSUMES 0.45A at 120V, so that's 54W of energy right there! 24/7/365 means 473kWH per year; so here in Northern California at .12/kWH, that's almost $5/month in energy wasted! Another big laugher is if you download their "test report" done by an outfit named "Professional Testing (EMI) Inc." in Round Rock Tx. http://www.ptitest.com/PTI/Home They are apparently a legitimate testing company, but they test for EMC, reliability and the like, NOT energy claims. Even so, if you actually READ their report, they state, unequivocally, the REAL power (the kW, although they don't use that term), which most of the test loads consumed actually GOES UP (just as we would all expect), not down! They make claims all over the place that the AMPS go down, but right there on the same data chart they show the power staying the same or going up! What's so funny about that is that this legitimate testing company actually does NOT lie, but they definitely abet the crime by allowing the "spin" on their report to be used to construe that it was saving "energy". Shame shame shame. I sent them an email telling them I think what they did was shameful. I know it won't change anything, but they should hear from everyone who thinks so. Back to X-Power though, did I understand that they are claiming sales of $1 million??? Wow, that would prove that there are a LOT of suckers out there. Amazing...
JRaef
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Joined: Mar 2005
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A lot of modern equipment like A/C, washing machines etc., now use inverters and dc motors to give soft start and variable run speeds/power. Mucking about with phase shift is asking for trouble. The inverter chips are going to love this! Not!
I did some investigation. If you lead current to volts by a power factor of 1.2 in an ordinary brush or induction motor designed to run at near unity PF at the design power, the heating effect in the windings goes up by 120 per cent squared, or 144%. Hot windings = less amps = shorter life = waste. Increased PF also reduces amperes in the windings, because the current and voltage sinewaves are offset by x electrical degrees. All the 'savings' come from downrating/cooking the motor.
Net savings effect: = Nil.
Long term effect: = Bill [ for new motor! ]
Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Wood work but can't!
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Joined: Feb 2007
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I looked at that report from the test lab. In the 5 test cases, it shows real power (kW) staying the same in case 1, increasing in cases 2, 3, and 5, and decreasing in case 4. In the "Conclusion" section it states, "In most cases the real and apparent powers were reduced while the power factor was shifted closer to 1.0." Huh? The test results show the real power increasing in most cases!
For case 4, I suspect that the reduced power is due to a reduced output of the motors and/or fan. Nothing in the test report indicates that they did anything to measure the power output of the motors or fans.
If you want to reduce your electric bill, spend the money on more efficient appliances and lighting, or just reduce your usage of your existing appliances and lights!
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