ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area OT: "Green" whackos strike again!

I'd argue with you guys, but it's not a political forum.
I'd challenge Joe to provide some evidence of CO2 being an effect, rather than a cause of global warming, however.
I will say that so far global warming is just a "trend" it'll be another 15 years or so of increased average globaal temperatures to conclusivley say that the change is long-term and will not disappear next year.
the global warming topic is somewhat appropriate for this forum, especially when it comes to power consumption and methods used to reduce it, and I agree it's being gone about in the wrong sort of ways.
Abortion and euthinasia are both topics I feel very very, strongly on, but I refuse to comment as both topics are completely, absolutely, and undeniably inappropriate for and ELECTRICIAN'S forum. For cripe's sake....

the ozone hole was a phenominon that we knew the cause of, and that was definetely real, just ask someone in NZ or Australia who lives under the darn thing, our own Mike "Trumpy" for example, I believe he's had to have one or more melanomas removed. And the world powers got together, and signed a treaty phasing out clouroflourocarbons, the cause of the ozone hole, thus it stopped expanding, and is now shrinking, thus it is no longer an issue, is that so hard to understand? If anyone would like they can drop me an E-Mail and I'd be more than happy to explain the verifiable chemmistry behind the phenominon
-Will

In response to the actual topic, this is a ridiculous law, and gone about in the worst way possible, I agree that it's extortion, BBQ'ing has minimal CO2 how much charcol is used in a couple hours a bbq'ing a few pounds? how much coal is used in a few hours production at a coal-fired plant, a few tons? make the same comparison with 2-3 families running a grill and 2-3 families running their 4-5 cars on gasoline. And if they really want to extort money from the people, I agree, it would be a thousand times more logical to just tax the propane and charcoal.

-Will

Well, I'm left with a little egg on my face, as I've done a little digging it does appear that this story originated as an April 1st joke. The Belgian government has apparently completely denied any such proposal.

But doesn't the mere fact that I (and apparently many other people too) actually thought this could be true show just how far we've gotten with governments trying to control and tax every aspect of our lives?

It's like the battery issue here a few years ago which I can confirm was absolutely true. We already had a very efficient and entirely voluntary scheme for recycling the acid and lead from old car batteries. Scrap yards would accept them and just send them off for processing.

Then the heavy hand of government stepped in in some areas and implemented an "environmental protection" scheme which involved a complex system of issuing a separate document for each and every scrap battery collected. It also imposed a "recycling fee" for each and every battery collected which exceeded the scrap value of the battery itself.

The inevitable result was that batteries ended up being dumped in ditches etc. because scrap yards -- quite understandably -- simply refused to take them any more.

"Mother Earth" has turned into a religon and as with any fanatic, any veiwpoint contrary that they deem acceptable is not allowed.......

Perhaps this issue needs to be watched and added to the list of prohibited topics.

Well Paul, as a man who takes his BBQ seriously and lives in a city and state that at times goes over-board with "green" legislation - the 'joke' may be reality soon.

Do a search of BBQ and Cancer and you get stories like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3106039.stm

Or BBQ and polution: http://www.ontariotenants.ca/electricity/articles/2003/ts203f25.phtml

Also I feel that as an industry, BBQ is very important to us culturally. Klein makes BBQ tools, the Union is well known for its BBQs, and many of us non-union guys love it too!

It is unfortunate that electrical discussions – of all things – have turned political, but what are we to do? Just sit there and accept all sorts of ridiculous mandates without complaint of debate? Stalin would indeed be proud!

Politics IS affecting the trade, right down to proposed bans on, of all things, incandescent light bulbs… the most glaring attack yet on the trade. Actually, I shouldn't say “proposed” anymore because Title 24 of the California Energy Code MANDATES fluorescent lighting for new construction of kitchens and baths. What if I don’t want my kitchen or bath to look like office space? What if I don’t want to replace my light bulbs with those silly looking CF bulbs?

Electricity production – energy production in general – in and of itself has become EXTREMELY political. For example, with the grid becoming more unreliable, standby generator installations which used to be limited mainly to emergency facilities are now becoming commonplace. Solar (a very dirty technology) is once again seeing a resurgence now with inverters, batteries, and a variety of complex control systems. Wind power continues to expand, cluttering the landscape. Electricity is essential for a modern society, but increasingly it is under attack. Just look at what happens anytime any type of new power project is proposed.

I wish our debates were only limited to technical, practical, safety and code related issues – as it should. But this trade, like so many others, has taken on the wrath of those who view progress and an impediment, and such outside interference that will not end if we simply remain compliant.

Granted, BBQ has nothing at all to do with the electrical trade, but it brings forth the larger issue of regulation gone out of control. It was labeled OT as appropriate, which is why I responded in kind. Perhaps the moderators of this forum would consider a separate “off topic” section for these types of discussions, perhaps restricted to members willing to participate, so that it doesn’t distract from the exceptional vocational value of this forum. Such a forum should still be moderated so things don’t get out of control... which I doubt it would because the folks here are very respectful of others.

Joe

Joe.....really now....a bit over the top.

I am going to close this thread and speak with Bill and the other Moderators to see how they feel.

But based on the fact the topic of the post turned out to be a Hoax (Not by Paul) and it has nothing to do with electrical issues I see no reason to let it continue.

We now have PMs which your more then free to discuss any subject with other members.

There is also the chat room which I am told is much less restrictive then the forum itself.