ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Need Some Sound Advice...

Virgil,
Thanks for recognizing that I was making a poor attempt at humor by stealing the Top Ten format from David Letterman.

However Burr, I was only speaking from experience. Back in the early 80’s when I did my apprenticeship, Working in the trades here in Chicago was very cutthroat. If you couldn’t prove your worth, there were plenty of guys waiting to take your place. On top of that, the Journeymen took the concept of Rank and File to mean that you got to teach your apprentice in the same manner that you were taught. Burr, these guys are right, it sucked! But it taught me how to stick with something till the end. I’ll bet that all the members of this forum who have ever been in the services thought that their basic training sucked too. It’s supposed to be that way. They’re teaching you a mentality about getting a job done, not just the skills about how to do it.

Whenever I hear about some contractor, who started a job, tore apart someone’s home, took his or her partial payment and never returned. I’d like to think that person never served a true apprenticeship. To this day I curse the guy I apprenticed under and the ground he walks on. But every day I show up for work, ready to do the best job I can.

Good Luck Burr,
Steve

Pearlfish after your revision I now see the humor. I do stand by what I said for you guys that do have this kind of attitude. I see no reason to make life miserable for someone simply because you feel it will make them a better worker some day. 66, Ten bucks an hour. YIKES "Envy" is not the word that came to mind.

Virgil,
I have to agree with Electricmanscott on this one. I hope my boss doesn't see this thread he'll be expecting a whole lot more from me!

Go-go, I wasn't completely agreeing, however, it was very reminiscent of my own
apprenticeship. Jobs were scarce here in the mid 80s, and like Pearlfish said, you did everything you could do to stand out from the rest.

Anybody old enough to remember their first couple of years being
nothing but building and tearing down scaffolding? That's the way it was for some J-men I've worked under...

I've vowed to treat my apprentice like I wished I'd been treated, however. But he
will be driving ground rods and crawling in the mud and attics more often than me.

Electricmanscott, Believe me, $10 per hour is good for this area for entry level. More
like excellent. I started at $4.00 back in '84 and was making $4.00 in Richmond, VA
summer of '86.

By envy, I meant I bet you guys wish you could pay your guys so little and get away with it! Or do you think it's too much? I got an offer for a Masters position that paid only $10 per hour about a year ago. I hastily turned it down.

Back when I was making $10 as a journeyman and $12.50 as a Master, I was using my own power tools and using my personal van as a work truck!

Ain't no way I'd expect that from my employees.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-07-2002).]

I know it's all relative but those wages are depressing.

Yes they are E-Scott, it is a reflection of the lack of bueracracy, allbeit the double edged sword it is.....

As to those who seek the holy wirestripper;

One piece of advise i was given was from an old Bruce Lee interview where he was asked what style he was.
His reply was 'all styles, and no style', as he chose to emulate the collective of his experiences.

As to deciding to ride the brama bull and move on to contracting, well....lets' put it this way......

The Toe you step on today may well be connected to the A** you gotta kiss tommorrow...( my co. motto......)

Steve (stylin')Sparky.....

~PS, Pearlfish....
I thought i was 'coffee boy' for quite a while....



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 11-08-2002).]

Pearlfish
It sounds like your first reply hit a little too close to home for some people. I am not an electrician, so I did not go through an apprenticeship program. I could appreciate the humor in your response, but I also saw what you were saying in the background.

Sparky66
$10???? We have grunts on the floor making more than that. But then again I am here in sunny(not today) Southern California

Some perspective on the wage issue:

I just drove up the Delmarva peninsula today and saw a bulletin board: "Join our team at at Big Chicken Company processing plant, start at $8.00/hr"


What's the point of mentioning this? Apprentices are getting paid the same as meat packers!! What kind of image of the trade is this sending?

Granted, working at a meat packing plant is a horrible job, but hopefully you get my point. Low pay is one of the reasons I left the trade.

Well, I mentioned it to illustrate that I intend to treat my new apprentice well.

Seriously, guys. $12.50 for a J-man (non-union, resi) is top pay around here.

$10 for entry level is unheard of.

Didn't mean to sound like I'm ripping people off!

What is entry level pay for your area?



Meat packers here make minimum wage. It would be less, but the feds won't let 'em.

Entry level for most jobs around here is minumum wage, and usually no more that $6.00 p/h maximum. No benefits, ever.

Heck, OT is usually "saved for a rainy day" and paid at regular time on short weeks. Not that I'd do that, of course.

My gross business so far this year is about $26,000. How much of that should I give to a helper? All of it?

</rant>



If you think I'm bad off, my step Dad makes $200 a week working 7 14s at his Dairy Farm.

No exaggeration.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 11-08-2002).]

Virgil,
what say we pack up and cruise to S.Cal ?, maybe Scotts'l set us up ?