ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Service mast

E57:
Services here (NJ) the EC does the install, RGC,Conductors, drop hook, etc.
On BUD, PSE&G supplies/installs line side to meter pan; EC supplies conduit/fittings from bottom of meter pan to depth in trench. (PVC, ta, bush, etc)
Other UG, EC installs conduit & conductors from meter pan to 10' +/- up pole. Now 2-1/2" PVC min. for 200 a.

AS to service sizes, 100 min is still OK

Large comm/ind primary conduit by EC, pull boxes (if req) by EC (PSE&G Spec) primary conductors S&I by PSE&G. Secondary side; all on EC incl. terminations in pad mount.
Pad mount by PSE&G; all prep by EC to utility specs.

This is all PSE&G, JCP&L varies (go figure)

John

I find it very hard to accept that the local PoCo has no standards for a service mast.

I'd use a minimum of 2" Rigid. The weatherhead should be at least 18" above the roofline. If more than 30" above the roof, additional support is needed.

The mast is typically supported in three places. First, there are two places on the wall, where the mast is attached to "thin" strut. Strut is used, so that the anchoring lag bolts can be sunk into the framing - not just the siding.
The third support is where the mast pierces the eave; the roof itself helps hold it in place.

As for the "mechanic" who relied upon drywall screws: I recently replaced such an installation. All it took was for the roofing crew to remove the old roof, and the "service" fell into the yard. As you might guess, there were lots of sparks, and the "all in one" panel was trashed.

Hotline,
JCP&L is similar - except there most recent topic of confusion - terminations on secondary side of pad mounted transformers.

On at least three occasions in the past 6 mos, our foreman has been instructed by the Wiring Inspector that we are required to crimp and bolt the lugs on the secondary side.

Then like clockwork the linecrew shows up while we are doing this - and we promptly get chewed out for taking their work and to get out of their transformer.

Which I agree with - JCP&L gives away too much work as it is.

I showed to one service install last year as an apprentice and we had to go 1000' feet around a soccer field to get to the pole. JCP&L showed up - dropped off a trailer with parallelled reel of AL primary and said "Have Fun!" call us when your done installing it.

Gotta love em

NJ:
Are you saying they had you install the primary??
If so, that is really a new one on me!

John

Around here: I size the pipe how I see fit = or > 1 1/4" depending on the service, pull and land my own conductors at the meter, and for existing services - set the old meter and heat it back up with insulation piercing lugs. (by the PG&E green book not hip but otherwise the customer waits for 2 weeks ~ 20 years... not kidding, and they don't like so much that it's common practice and has been since long before I was here.) Green tag from the city, and eventually PG&E makes it back out to tag and install perminant taps. The pricy lugs get tossed - but part of the job. But I have seen non-PG&E split bolts from antiquity - but still reffered to as "temporary splices"

UG - pipe and size however I see fit depending on the service to the closest point I can get to the street, and put in a termination can for PG&E to pull to, then its by thier regs max 2 90's 2' and 3' sweeps of 2 1/2" or > depending on the service back to thier christy box. And if theres a usable existing conduit, I pull the conductors all the way to thier christy for them to terminate.

It's been this way for as long as I remember, but if you had to do it the POCO's way and wait for them too - nothing would ever get done. The POCO, and the inspectors know that pretty well. Did one (OH) across the street for a neighbor, and it took two months for the rep to show, and two more for the two man crew to tag the meter. Took a dozen phone calls and an office visit to expedite it.

E57:
Yes, the same situations re: POCO showing up.
As an AHJ, I do service inspection, post approval on panel, and send a cut-in card to the POCO the same day, hard copy via US Mail, and via fax to district POCO office. (PSE&G).

On replacements, 99% of the EC's tie into the drop, otherwise....darkness for a while.

New construction....depends on how many phone calls the builder/GC/EC make to 'xxtch'

Comm seems to have an advantage time-wise (new). Repairs/re-connects/disconnects CAN be scheduled, and 'guaranteed' but...$$$$$

Also, I just noticed some of the fees the POCO charges for temp connects, etc. Used to be basically a "freebe", but not since deregulation.

Stay safe
John

Although this thread appears to be more oriented towards Residential Services (which I do not have too much recent experience with, since the last one I did was the beginning of 2000!), I would like to toss in some Baloney anyways!

First things first:

Try to find the "ESR Manual" for the Utility you are dealing with.
The "ESR Manual" (Electrical Service Requirements) manual describes - in detail - what the Utility Service Planners will want, along with what the Utility Inspectors will expect to see.

Most Utilities have their ESR's online in .PDF format. If not, contact them and request a Hard Copy version.

I hold ESRs for SCE, LA DWP, SDG&E, PG&E + Anaheim Public Utility ("APU"). These documents cover all Service related design data, and have contact information to verify with a Live Person!

I stongly suggest to anyone involved with anything Service Related, to obtain these documents, and back up the information with telephone calls / site meetings _PRIOR_ to any installations.

This applies to ECs, Designers, Project Mangagers, even Field personnel (Forepersons and "Upper" Journeypersons).

Next Chunk 'O Text:

On the Commercial / Industrial Projects I deal with (past and present), if new Service Feeders &/or Transformers are to be installed, these items are common for Underground Installations:

*** In Anaheim:

* Drawings + Load Calcs submitted to Service Planner Engineer for approval,

* Install One (1) 4" PVC Schedule 40 (min) per "400 amps" of feeder, between the Transformer vault and the UGPS of the new Service
(example: if the Service is 1600 amps, then a minimum of Four feeder ducts to be installed),

* Install at least one "spare duct" if directed by the Service Engineer - spare duct(s) to contain pull rope,

* Install Four (4) 750 KCMIL Aluminum XHHW-2 Conductors per duct - if the Service is to be a 4 Wire Wye type; termination at UGPS by the EC, termiation at Transformer by APU,

* Install One (1) 4" PVC Schedule 40, between the Transformer Vault and the Pole - for Primary Feeders (Primary feeders provided, installed and terminated by APU) - installed per Service Planning Engineer's requests (typically per the ESR Manual),

* Transformer Vault to be Provided + Installed by the EC - according to specifications and listed types in the ESR Manual (verification by Service Planning Engineer is required),

* Concrete Encasement for Primary and Secondary Feeder Ducts, per the ESR Manual,

* Inspection of ducts + Transformer Vault prior to Concrete, then prior to backfill,

* Service Equipment to be EUSERC Compliant, and approved by Service Engineer + accepted by Utility Inspector,

* Building Department "related" items must be applied too (permits, city license, drawings / specifications / cutsheets / etc., inspections, etc.),

* Building Department Inspector "Signs Off" for the new Service Equipment,

* Utility Inspector "Signs Off" for all the new stuff,

* Meter Shop sends out KWh Meter to Utility Mechanics,

* New Meter is set on Service Section, New / Upgraded Transformer is set on Vault + Terminated, Primary Feeders installed and terminated,

* Utility performs "Smoke Test" .

Everything is just about the same for "Other Than Anaheim" Utilities - except they (the Utility Company) provide, install and terminate all Primary + Secondary Feeders -
the EC only provides and installs the Ducts.

Footnote:

* 90° Elbows to be 60" radius sweeps, and Scedule 80 PVC,
* Ducts to be "Mandrelled" using a Mandrel provided by the Utility Inspector,
* Fees for Permits and such, are applied separately (Utility and DBS),
* "Meter Spotting" to be done by Utility Inspector / Service Planner - On-Site, unless otherwise agreed to,
* Only "Approved" Contractors may enter or penetrate a Utility Vault (one may become "Approved" for certain instances by the Utility),
* Unless $1,000.00 fines + heated nasty grams are "Fun Things" for you, _ALWAYS_ contact the Utility Company when a Meter is to be removed!!!

Just some fun facts from my side of town!

edited for pour spelieng

Scott:
Extreemly well said!!
Here in NJ PSE&G has a hard copy avail, I have 1 in each office. It also has FULL details, requirements, specs, as you outlined above. With them, it's 'tough' to get the paperwork thru..sometimes it can be min of 20-30 days, with 45-60 days common. Calling a live person, with any experience (field) has been a hassle, to say the least.

JCP&L (GPU), now part of First Energy has all info on-line, and you have to pay attention to what you're reading, as they have multiple areas (out of NJ)

I primarilary am in the PSE&G areas, (as EC and AHJ), so the other 3 POCO's are not fresh in my mind.

BTW, you really like to type!!

John