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Joined: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by John in Jersey
I guess I should clarify:
The application is to provide back ground music in a "medi-spa", which does laser hair removal etc.
We installed speco 70v speakers. We ran all the wiring, installed volume contols etc. An audio guy was to install and provide the equipment (amp, tuner,cd etc). The owner wants me to supply the equipment.

I purchased a PBM-120 Speco Technologies PA Background Sound Amplifier. It can have 3 microphone inputs or 3 inputs which look like RCA jacks. I know I can connect the cd player, but am unsure of the receiver. Maybe I should have gotten a tuner instead of the receiver to get the low level input?
ps. I am an electrical contractor in central NJ. The owner is my wife's boss and though I am being well paid for the job I am being "forced' to do the audio.



radio is not royalty free you must be an ascap member to rebroadcast radio!!!

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PBXtech #167771 08/19/07 10:56 PM
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Good point PBXtech. Most people don't know this and even as a contractor for the customer they put themselves or their company at risk for legal action from the music industry that we all know is on a witch hunt lately.

If a business uses ANY music they must pay royalties to BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. Yes ALL three and they do monitor using "mystery shoppers".

The only way around this is to use a music service such as Muzak and DMX that incorporate the fees into what you pay. XM and Sirius also have commercial rates that work the same way.

-Hal

Last edited by hbiss; 08/19/07 10:58 PM.
hbiss #167772 08/19/07 11:12 PM
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IBM got in a different kind of trouble because of this. The ROLM tech was playing with the radio in his gear while he was installing the PBX and went off leaving it running. Well it turns out that was being ported to "music on hold".

As is their custom, 96 K-Rock in Ft Myers plays Jimmy Buffett - "Why don't we get drunk ..." every friday at 5 PM. A customer, who was trying to reach his rep, was not happy with the choice of music.



Greg Fretwell
gfretwell #169409 10/04/07 10:38 AM
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If a business uses ANY music they must pay royalties to BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. Yes ALL three and they do monitor using "mystery shoppers".

Out of curiosity, where does the line of what "uses" is get drawn?
If the wholesale house has a radio on in the morning when customers are getting their orders is that a violation?

If a crew shows up on a rough wire and turns on the DeWalt job radio is that a no-no.

For that matter if I'm on job by myself listening to a broadcast an I doing wrong because I'm there in a commercial capacity? What if other trades are there and can hear it?

It seems a bit silly since anyone I've mentioned can simply tune in for free providing they brought their radio.
The real problem is getting everyone to agree on a station.

ChicoC10 #169488 10/05/07 10:58 PM
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Out of curiosity, where does the line of what "uses" is get drawn?

That determination as well as the cost depends on several factors. Whether or not the venue is a business and it's type, how the music is distributed and who's control is it under.

For instance, if a radio or CD player is located on a shelf in a restaurant kitchen for the kitchen help to listen to it would not be subject to royalty fees. It's considered to be under the control of the people in the kitchen for their enjoyment. However, a CD player connected to speakers in the dining areas would be subject because the music is for the enjoyment of the customers and enhances the business. Fees are based on the square footage and number of speakers.

So, you have nothing to worry about with your boombox on the job site.

-Hal

hbiss #169493 10/06/07 01:41 AM
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The Rolm guys had their rack radio on in the telco room and it turned out, also "music on hold" on the switch. It was always on 96 K-ROCK (the Ft Myers version) There was some concerns about the ASCAP issue and the station format for a couple days but it all went away when a whizzed off customer got "why don't we get drunk and screw" at 5PM on Friday (the station's custom).
The radio got removed from the rack.


Greg Fretwell
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For future reference, all that PA amp is doing is sending it's output into an impedance matching transformer before sending it to the terminals on the outside of the box.

The actual amplifier inside is the same as a normal PA amp plus this transformer.

Add a transformer to the receiver, and suddenly it too can be a 70V line amplifier. Most cheap receivers these days are MUCH happier with 8 ohm loads (4 ohms may damage them or cause a shutdown), so be sure to get a transformer with an 8 ohm primary.

Stereo mixes are odd, most of the information is on the left channel for some reason. If you have a mono system, connect it to the left output. DO NOT attempt to bridge the output of a receiver, catastrophic damage to the output section may result. This is essentially a short and the protection circuit on most receivers will be blind to this type of fault. Most are only good for same channel lead to lead or lead to chassis ground shorts. Some sort of isolation is required and even then, with anything above line level (1-4V p-p), I wouldn't push your luck.

Radio Shack used to sell a 100W 70V line matching transformer for this purpose, but that was 10 years ago when the still sold replacement speakers during my grade school ultra cheap project days.... I miss the old RS.

Wait I take that back....who am I kidding.... I live 13 miles from the Mouser Electronics warehouse and I have a business account with them so I can do will call.... makes even RS in its heyday look silly and ridiculously expensive. laugh

Last edited by hardwareguy; 02/04/08 04:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by hardwareguy
Wait I take that back....who am I kidding.... I live 13 miles from the Mouser Electronics warehouse and I have a business account with them so I can do will call.... makes even RS in its heyday look silly and ridiculously expensive. laugh


Radio Shack had stores in Britain too, although over here they went under the Tandy name. They might have been considered acceptable by the average consumer who just wanted to buy an RCA lead or something and didn't really know the true costs, but in "proper" electronics circles everybody knew that the prices were ridiculous.

They'd charge something stupid like 40 pence for two little 1/4-watt carbon resistors all done up in a plastic package, when you could buy the same resistors anywhere else loose out of the bin for about 2 pence each.

pauluk #174537 02/07/08 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pauluk
Keep in mind that the receiver may have line-level outputs which are not specifically labeled as such. See if it has TAPE OUT or TAPE RECORD jacks.


I've never seen a receiever that didn't have a TAPE OUT or TAPE REC. jack.

Of course, if it doesn't you could always get a line output converter (as used for car stereo amplifier installations) and connect that to the speaker level outputs to get a line level output.

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