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#159200 11/17/06 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
D
Member
Quote
you can lead the way or try to hold on while you get run over.

Are they our only 2 options?

Who made up them rules?


Quote
I want some pie!

Everyone does.

But instead of fighting over a piece of the pie, make your own, and enjoy the whole thing.

Latest Estimating Cost Guides & Software:
#159201 11/17/06 02:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 272
A
Member
I got a call last night from a homeowner who needed a service upgrade. He had a fried leg in the meter socket and the power company gave him 48 hours to get the upgrade done.

I went out this morning and found out the homeowner just bought the place and it's under warranty. I would need to call the bank to get the price authorized.

It's an overhead service & would need to be upgraded to meet the current standards of the power company and current codes.

That means a 2in. Rigid Steel conduit mast that penetrates the roof, ground ran to within 5ft. of main water line, ground rod & main breaker needs to be outside. Neutrals & grounds are currently bonded in the interior panel which is an old federal pacific panel. This would all have to be corrected and new SER cable ran to the panel about 20ft. The meter will have to be relocated from it's current position about 5ft. away. The old service will need to be removed.

I priced this at $2,500 and planned on replacing the federal pacific panel. I called the bank and gave them my price. He said the electrician they normally use could not do the job until tuesday so that's why they called me. He said my price was way too high and that their electrician was going to do this job for $900.

I explained he must not be planning on doing anything on the inside of the home and that he must be planning on just installing the meter main on the outside. I explained that if he doesn't make changes on the inside as well, the installation will not meet code.

I can't imagine even doing just the meter main on the outside for $900. He's still has to run a ground to the water line thats about 75ft. away & drive at least one ground rod & the only place to drive one without drilling a hole through the conctrete driveway is about 20ft. away.

He has to coordinate with the power company and the city inspector. Here the power company has to cut the power and the inspector has to call it in to have it hooked back up. He will need to go to the city offices and pull the permit.

I told the homeowner I wished him luck because for $900 I can imagine what kind of job he'll get. I'm sure they'll install the minimum 100amp service. I always upgrade to a larger service & put in a larger than necessary panel so they'll have plenty of capacity to add central air, a hot tub, etc.

I've gone out to many peoples homes that want a hot tub installed or something else and when I tell them the panel is full or the service is too small they often say; I just had this all replaced not too long ago.

$900 for a service upgrade?
I'd like to see someone justify that.

I'm going to have to go visit this installation to see what kind of fool would do this and what a $900 installation looks like.

I thought my price was low.


[This message has been edited by A-Line (edited 11-17-2006).]

[This message has been edited by A-Line (edited 11-17-2006).]

#159202 11/17/06 03:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
R
REW Offline
Member
Wow, I didn't expect so much passion. but with all of the posts, only one of my queries has be answered, and that in a roundabout way. The ESI "book" is not for sale to anyone else but ESI members. Perhaps Denny you have obtained a different pricing manual?

Now if I may take a few minutes to reply directly to some of the posts. And this is all (mostly) in jest:

Tiger: Thank you kindly for trying to rip me a new one, and then espouse mercy on my poor uneducated soul. [Linked Image]

Bigventure: The underlying hostility in this thread was brought on by my request for yout to "justify" and then "enlighten" me on your pricing practices. It is true that you can charge whatever you want "just because you can", but that is hardly a good reason to. Let me ask you, did you ever, even once, complain about the rising cost of fuel or criticize the oil companies for their record breaking (and absurd) profit? If not, you will surely be nominated for Sainthood, one day (hopefully a long time from now), but if you did, your pricing strategy and your attack on me is hypocritical. You have not given any clues as to whether I was correct in my estimation of you hourly rate for a 200 amp service. If I am way off base (you won't tell me), I apologize, but if I'm not, what I want to know, is that your rate for other work? Based on your truck revenue of upto $365,000/yr, that averages to a little over $200/hr. Why would your service change rate be so much higher? Why stop at $4800? Surely someone will pay $10K. But does that make it reasonable? If gas went to $8/gal we would still pay for it but does that make it reasonable?

As for the prices of service changes here, yes they are $2100. I encounter this every day. Please note that I said "encounter" and not compete with. As a member of ESI, I don't consider those contractors my competiton. I am in a different league than those contractors are. I do understand my cost of providing the services that we do. We do offer the "iron clad" warranty (no one has ever take full advantage of our 100% money back guaranty, becuase of our excellent customer service). We are uniformed, drug tested, background checked, trained and drive the some of the nicest trucks in the area. (see the bottom of the page.) Our 200 amp overhead uprgrade price is usually a between $2800 and $3k depending on the grounding necessary and permitting process. With a total of 8 hours involved, the final hourly rate and profit fit well within our business plan.

Mahlere: You are truely a "business guru" you too bigventure [Linked Image]

Fredercburnisky: It is very easy to find out how much it will make (cost) you to join ESI... give them a call 800.505.8885. Without trying to start that debate, It is a good system for some, and not for others. I for one enjoy it and feel privliged to be a member.
http://www.connectionelectric.com/images///DSCN0751.JPG
http://www.connectionelectric.com/images///DSCN0756.JPG

[This message has been edited by REW (edited 11-17-2006).]

[This message has been edited by REW (edited 11-17-2006).]


Rich
#159203 11/17/06 03:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
R
REW Offline
Member
Dnkldorf


Are you sure you want me to send you and email? You haven't had a lot of nice things to say about flat rate pricing. [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Rich


Rich
#159204 11/17/06 03:54 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,158
Member
REW thanks for the Pics of your Van...


One day i would like to have the Same . I would be proud to have a van like that pulling up in the Better neighborhoods
I am sure anyone in the immediate area that sees that van and its Electrician pulling out protective mats and a shop vac ... well dressed they are going to look and take note.

#159205 11/17/06 04:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
D
Member
Rich, I was going to send you a link to Holts site, for more views on pricing techniques, and varying opinions.

I don't know if that was appropriate or not, so I thought it should be left off the board.

As for my views on flat rate?

It is not my intention of plundering any one system, and my views may not be the main stream here. I post thoughts and counter thoughts, with the hope that whoever reads them sees 2 or more options, and the good as well as the bad with any one system. And I have a real problem with the thought that anyone not using a "flat rate" system is somehow "dragging the industry down".

Any system done ethically, will work.

It's keeping it ethical, that seems to be the problem.

With thoughts like,
Take the customer for everything, because your going to do work for them once in your lifetime.
And,
I love stupid customers who don't know enough to get 3 estimates.
And
Take them for as much as you can because they can go get more.

You know what I am talking about.

So as for not liking some of the "flat rate" experts here.
I'll opt out, of being in your club.

But remmember, not all of the "flat raters" think this way.
Some are very good. And ethical.
We just need more of them to join this site.

#159206 11/17/06 04:30 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,158
Member
PLEASE lets keep things on a positive note
and a GOING FORWARD type posts
Thanks

#159207 11/17/06 04:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
R
REW Offline
Member
Thanks for the compliment about the vans.

I did'nt mean to mislead anyone, (well maybe a little), but my comments stand as my opinion. Charge what you want. I don't care. I'm not jealous or angry, but I do think that rate (if it is actually about $500/hr) is absurd.

And Mahlere, thanks for the "loveable village dolt" comment


Rich
#159208 11/17/06 04:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
D
Member
Wait till you here about the one guy, that dealt with the lady and the $1K/hr, and the bragging about it.

BTW, Welcome..
Hope you stay around...

(and don't drink the Kool-aid)
Les, I got to ask?
Email me what this means.

They are nice trucks.

[This message has been edited by Dnkldorf (edited 11-17-2006).]

#159209 11/17/06 04:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
R
REW Offline
Member
DNK,

some of it is people just trying to mess with you.


Rich
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