ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues New 406.11

I also saw something that today's kids aren't allowed to see in order to protect their frail little minds.


I got to see the coyote fall ALL the way to the ground and create a dust cloud when he hit. They edit those out of the roadrunner cartoons now...I guess they're afraid that some kid will push a cartoon coyote off a ledge without realizing the consequences of their actions.

Beep..beep

Any person that thinks cartoons are real needs to go to the Kucoo-house...

I hope Falls omits this section when/if they adopt th '08 code.

Ian A.

This thread is drifting into areas that, I am told, some consider too 'political' for this forum.

Right now, we're stuck with the 2008 as voted upon. For those not happy with it, there are two basic approaches that can have an impact.

First of all, the NEC is "law" only so far as it is adopted by the AHJ. You have every right to attempt to influence the AHJ to adopt your point of view, rather than that of the NFPA.

Secondly, before the ink is dry on the 2008, the process will start all over for the 2011 edition. Personally, I am a bit miffed at those of you who failed to put forth your opinions into proposals last time around- or to speak up when things were in the 'discussion' stage. It's always easier to avoid making a wrong turn ... than it is to turn things around.

Is the code writing process open to manipulation? Absolutely "Yes;" there are at least two US Supreme Court cases that have addressed 'corrupted' codes. Even so, our flawed system still beats every other one out there.

SO- let's start working on 2011 - and get this nonsense sent back to the rubbish bin.

I will agree with John with this one let this started on the 2011 cycle and get this a head start on this before it will do a " Deja va " on this matter

Merci , Marc

SO- let's start working on 2011 -


A better idea.. IMO---

Get on them now, so this does not hit in 08'

It's my understanding this is still in the AIP stage n(approved in principal).

I think the 2008 is on the way to the printers by now. I really expect to see copies popping up soon. I think the standards council released it last month. The last time the riff raff out in the field got to say something was in the comment phase as far as I know.

This is an interesting debate, because of course we have shuttered outlets here in the U.K.

Our current 13A standard receptacles were designed with shutters right from their inception in the late 1940s, and the older round-pin sockets were also re-designed to incorporate shutters in some versions.

Many (most?) people in this country tout shutters as being an important or even essential safety feature, but personally I've always wondered just how effective they really are.

For the first 30+ years the shutters were always opened by an operating pin located in the ground slot. Everybody over here who works with electrical fittings masters the knack of opening the shutters with a meter probe in the earth.

Then in the 1980s some manufacturers started using a rotating shutter mechanism which needs equal pressure on hot and neutral to open. Now we have MK and one or two others using complex shutter arrangements which supposedly need equal pressure on all three prongs to open. The ones I've seen seem more prone to jamming than the older earth-operated types.

I'm still not convinced that all these shutters are anything like as essential as some people seem to believe, even though we are talking about outlets delivering 240V to ground.

It seems particularly strange that shuttered outlets are considered so essential when one looks at all the other connectors in use which are not similarly protected -- The in-line IEC sockets on the end of power cords don't have shutters, a kid who removes a bulb from a bedside lamp could easily put his fingers into the open light socket etc.

Interesting points Paul.
No one likes change, and this is a big one in the states.
I'm sure we'll all adjust and the styles will evolve.

As you have eluded to, there are many more blaintant and acessable (electrical) hazards in every building that are not addressed.

I'm late on this one, but if the problem is electrocution, why not provide GFCI protection at the distribution panel?

Dave

That's what we'll be getting here from next year as well as the shutters. At the moment, our code requires that any receptacle "likely" to be used to supply equipment outdoors must be RCD (GFCI) protected, but the revised 2008 code is going to extend the RCD requirement to all general-purpose receptacles. Our RCD is a 30mA trip though, not the 6mA or so of the American GFCI.

Don't forget either that a GFCI will not prevent severe shock or electrocution if somebody gets across line and neutral and there is not a simultaneous path to ground.