ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues New 406.11

Talking to a new Dad yesturday who told me his 8 month old has figured out all of the child-proofing items around the house (to include the outlets) that did not require considerable strength. So if we're really trying to keep kids safe, why not mandate that all outlets be on the cieling? Or just redesign the outlet and plug itself so that it is not energized until a standard key on every plug cap turns the outlet on. Or just make outlets of current design not enegized until the both prongs are fully inserted and identified as a plug somehow. (May a use for those little holes...)

... or just teach kids not to stick things in receptacles.

One of my proposed solutions to the problem was to locate all receptacles high enough to prevent the little darlings from reaching them. No Code change required.

One of my biker buddies went the other way. He had a couple of the receptacles in the living room hanging out on the conductors.
When I asked he said it discouraged people from bringing over small children.

I could see the merit to that too

In my state, our law makers will take the NEC and accept it, but they will eliminate a few things. Like right now my state still doesn't require Arc fault. I hope they have enough sense and not accept the tamper proof receptacles. We can only wait and see.

"If you check the ROP you will find that the proposal for this requirement came from the manufactures who will reap the profits from the sale of more expensive wiring devices.
Don "

So where's the problem?

If it is required,
They sell it, We buy and install it, the customer pays for it.Our price/device goes up as well as the profit mark.
(AFCI included)

The only problem I see, is if we give them away at the same price as now.
(I'm not in it for the paractice.)

Then who's problem is it realy? It is what it is.

I do think it is a stretch.. the safety thing.

Darwin was realy onto something!

The problem comes from trying to explain it to the customer.
You can justify GFI's , smoke detectors, enclosed closet lights (luminaires) and even AFCI's when the bugs are worked out. Even bubble covers could be justified.
But, try to explain why a house in a retirement center needs tamper proof receptacles behind the refrigerater, or for the garbage disposal. Then there are the countertop receptacles that were placed to accomodate the short appliance cords so the kids couldn't pull the coffee pot on their heads. The laundry receptacle behind the washing machine.
Explain why an outside GFI receptacle would need the tamperproof cover.
Tamper proof, why ?
So the manufacturer could make more money.
So the supply house could make more money.
So the contractor can make more money.
Tell that to your customer.
I'm sure they will understand.
Let us know how that works for you.

Hope your not upset with me, Not my intention.

We don't write the code, but do have input.
(I don't think it will fly, too much cost involved)

I have no idea on the TR GFCI anywhere.
I think a little parental supervision and education goes a long way. I never ate the lead paint on my parents window sill, or ... I digress...

We live in a feel good society now where common sense must be legislated. The intention is well understood. However it appears that this is another case of the pendulum swinging out of control again. The need to do something.. right or wrong is too great. Over reaction to a small problem. I don't have the #s, but they would be interesting.

I feel the end result would be worse, as mentioned before. Once we leave, the customer removes/destroys the device, now a greater hazard.

As a side note, when I had the little ones, I couldn't afford the new house, we bought the old one without GFCI and all the rest. I'm sure things aren't too different now.
Your analogy suggests that we should give away the work to save the customer (you and I) money. Costs go up and so don't are prices, no way around it.


New septic requirements.. they're still working
building code.. Carpenters still working.
Auto regs...Ins regs.. Trash pick up...
The plumbers still have work (and more money than me).

It is what it is.

(Greg, I like your friends idea, but I'm afraid my dog would get hurt)

Lelend, you hit the nail on the head.

I was told never to stick anything in the outlet when I was a kid. I did once. I never did again.


I saw a TV program on restoring a classic car (1960's vintage) and the host was replacing the original brakes with disc brakes because "drum brakes were adequate when this car first came out, but they won't do the job today".

?????

Did the car get heavier in the past 40 years??

Did the coefficients of friction for asphalt, concrete and rubber change??

There are a lot of folks out there that fail to realize that the world worked just fine prior to their birth.

When I see all the required safety things these days I wonder how my generation survived.
On the other hand I wonder how today's kids would survive if they ever left the "total safety" of the US.