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#153958 01/06/04 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
The Super Markets we do are as bright as an operating room as you say.

I think people relate bright with clean. I know I do, if I go into a store that is dark and dingy I am put off, I think it is dirty.

They have taken to adding large skylights and gone with the light meters.But 50% light level on a job that has 400% more light than they need is still bright. [Linked Image]

They just had us go around to about 80 stores, remove about 200 4' fluorescent lamps and disconnect the ballasts for them.

These lamps where under the front edge of the dairy shelves, this was a smart move as standard stocking procedure always covered these lamps entirely.

I can't tell you how many containers of yogurt, butter, cheese etc. that I knocked to the floor while removing lamps. [Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#153959 01/06/04 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
E
Member
We in Connecticut will adopt the 2003 IEC in September. In addition to the 50% light reduction controls mentioned, we will be limited to Table 805.5.2, "Interior Lighting Power". This will limit the overall lighting wattage of various buildings to levels below that of the NEC's Table 220.3(A).
For example, under the NEC, we are to allow 2 VA/sq. ft., but the IECC wants a cap of 1.2 watts / sq. ft.; hotels from 2 down to 1 overall or 1.3 for a tenant space; schools from 3 down to 1.2; offices from 3.5 down to 1 overall or 1.1 for tenant space.
Of course, the NEC includes receptacles in some of these "General Lighting Loads", and the IECC is for only lighting fixtures.
I find it interesting that some occupancies allow more wattage than in the NEC. i.e. Churches in the NEC allow 1 VA/ sq. ft. , but, the IECC limits wattage to 1.3 overall and 2.4 for tenant spaces. All in the name of saving energy. It is just a little like comparing apples to oranges.


Earl
#153960 01/06/04 04:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
Member
earlydean,

Are any minimum lighting levels mentioned?

I can see one area suffering for another that they want well lit so that they keep the averages down under the maximum/sq.ft

Bill

P.S. >> Ryan,

Isn't 'ON' and 'OFF' already 2 levels?? [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 01-06-2004).]


Bill
#153961 01/08/04 08:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
D
Member
The only thing I've seen around here like that is "safety lighting" - like in hospitals / universities, etc, where one light per every x s.f. will remain on, so that security / staff can verify occupancy, even when the lights are "off".

Really annoying when you're trying to sleep in a hospital waiting room!

#153962 01/09/04 05:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,723
Likes: 1
Broom Pusher and
Member
Per Minimum Light Levels (Illumination, LUX, Foot-Candles, and the like);

Egress Lighting is one area where a minimum level will need to be met or exceeded.

In the Banking Industry, at ATMs (either Walk-Up, Drive-Through / Kiosk, or Interior Lobby via card entry), there are minimum lighting levels at various target points of proximity, which need to be met or exceeded.
Of course, these levels apply during Night Time (i.e. Darkened hours of Operations).

This, along with upkeep and design of the entire ATM transaction + surrounding areas, are listed in the California Financial Code, under Section 13000.

In the field, it's known as "AB-244", from when the concept was proposed as an Assembly Bill back in 1990 (Assembly Bill 244 for 1990).
No clue why this term stuck - and continues to stay, because it has absolutely no reference per the F.C. compliance!
(do an assembly bill search for "AB-244" at the State of California's site. what results will be in another galaxy as ATM lighting is viewed!...AKA "Whaddaheck does this have to do with ATM lighting???).

Apparently, Gasoline Stations have a similar Lighting Level compliance to meet - as all the Fuel Stations around here which are open 24/7 are lit up like crazy!

Fin. Code 13000 is not something one would find in the NEC, UBC, CEC (Cal. Elect. Code), IEC, or other references. It's kind of something "Learned" when doing Bank work.

Engineering requirements (Electrical) for the typical Bank Job will include the ATM area lighting compliance of FC13000 - as well as the typical E Sheets of the Contract Documents (Power, Interior Lighting, Exterior Lighting, 1 Line, Panel Schedules, Comm/Data, Security/CCTV, Title 24 Part 6).
The FC13000 ATM area plan page will describe specs of luminairs, and have illuminance levels - in foot-candles, plotted at target points of an area layout.

Sometimes, the C.O. (Certificate of Occupancy) will not be issued until the ATM area conditions of FC13000 are accepted by Building Department, Police Department, or both.

There are not too many minimum lighting levels, which can be items of enforcement, in addition to the ones I have listed.

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
#153963 01/09/04 05:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Hmmm..... Codes requiring certain minimum levels of illumination vs. energy-efficiency codes requiring minimal power consumption.

Should make for an interesting fight in years to come! [Linked Image]

#153964 01/09/04 10:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
E
Member
It is a fine line we must walk. Three masters to serve: The owner, the inspector, and the tenant. No wonder we have gray hair. (or in my case no hair)


Earl
#153965 01/11/04 09:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,294
Member
Additionally,
Outside lighting (parking lots, etc) here can't have bright spots and dark spots.
The maximum/minimum lighting ratios can't be exceeded. A point by point site plan with lighting levels is often required to be submitted with plans for plan check approval before a permit is issued.
Sometimes a "Police" inspection is required, with a seargent or lieutenant running around with a light meter at night.

The next CA Title 24 will include exterior lighting in the energy consumption calcs.
(Ought to be interesting on the auto dealerships we do, which might have 3 or 4 - 1000 watt metal halides on poles 40 feet apart)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 01-11-2004).]

#153966 01/11/04 11:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 507
G
Member
"In another thread, the topic turned to energy conservation, which makes me wonder: In your state/county/city/neck o' the woods, is dual level switching a requirement in commercial buildings?"

No

#153967 01/11/04 11:50 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
R
Member
Electure, what exemption or special provisions (wording) are (or are going to be) made for stadiums?

Roger

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