ECN Forum Forums Safety Discussion and News Occupational Safety Discussion Machine Interlocks, Etc

Trumpy you did the right thing. If you had wired it and someone got hurt you would not forgive yourself. I once had a heated arguement with a master electrican about pulling wire thru the pipe with a truck. I walked off that job because protection of the conductors is our job and a truck is no way to pull wires. My dad died in a industrial accident and by you not wireing that machine up you probably saved someones fingers for at least that nite. Good luck with the poco. Saftey First, ALWAYS.

I aplaud your moral conviction and you are probably better off without that job. There is a but however. You left the place in the same shape as you left it. I have only been ordered to do something that was a violation once and once I wrote up a task description as I was ordered and asked my superintendant to sign it he backed down. I told him I wanted CYA paper because if it went south I knew I would wear it. We wound up doing it right once the super realized he would be implicated in writing. Someone in that place is going to lose an appendage and you could still catch the blame. (you worked on it and they remember that part) You also left under a cloud as to your percieved competence.
I think you did the right thing but leaving doesn't change things. Of course getting your temper out of the equation is hugely dificult and I am not sure I would not have done the same thing. Sorry the management turned out to be the usual suspects.

I have to disagree, mikesh.

I remember, during the '60's, being told it was better to 'work within the system', rather than quit. Indeed, this very motive is why several of our country's top military folks stayed in- rather than resign in protest over the course of THAT war.
Now, time has past, and the record shows that these men all regret not resigning in protest. The Secretary of Defense at the time has actually confessed in his memoirs that there was a deliberate intent (on his part) to make a mess of things. In short, these military men were playing against a stacked deck- and refused to admit it!

Sometimes life does place you in a 'no win' situation. You have to be able to recognise that there is nothing good that can possibly come of continuing to play the game.

Declared incompetent? Sounds like he was relieved of all responsibility - to me! Had he stayed, you can be sure some jackalope would recall how he had 'disobeyed orders.' There is no sense in continuing any relationship with those who are amoral, psycho, or dishonest. Period.

Management has a major role in safety. When management is as obviously imcompetent as in this example, there is no chance for a safe workplace.

It is not over yet. They will provide bad info to anyone asking about your employment there. It may make a difference when you apply for another job, or need a security check background investigation.
Thing to do in my opinion is contact OSHA, and any state offices that deal with safety immediately and turn them in. Next thing would be to get legal help and sue their butts. Just leaving at this point will not help you or anyone else, you must act and take the initiative.
I was told to hook up a pedestal grinder for the big boss at the Pentagon. I said sure, but first we have to have the tool rest set properly , and the shields had to be in place. Then I went to the safety office and came back with all the safety info on testing grinding wheels, rpms of the wheels and tachometer readings of the machine, along with other safety tips.
The machine sat unused, and not hooked up until I retired.

I went to the funeral home a week ago Sunday to pay my respects to a really nice electrician I worked with this summer. He had 37 years of experience. He worked around a shutter, contacted 12KV, and passed 2 days later. It was a closed casket. Complacency kills!
Joe

Crikey,
I wasn't aware that this thread was still "live".
fredricburnisky,
At this stage of the game, this is the least of my worries.
I was happily taken on again by the Power Company that employed me previous to this (oh and the Fire Service debacle)mis-adventure into Industrial work.
I'm well known in town here as both a good Electrician and a Faultsman, no person that operates a place that has such a high turnover of staff as that place is going to do me any harm.
One other thing is, that place DOES NOT GIVE REFERENCES to those that leave, either in writing or over the phone to prospective employers.
One thing I have to say about referees, if your next boss has to call them, you haven't got the job anyway.
It's because they don't trust you.
Joe,
I'm not talking about competent people being injured here, although I really do feel sympathy for anyone that gets hurt at work.
I'm talking about people that work as labourers and should EXPECT that machinery that they use works correctly and should stop if they use it incorrectly or the machine goes out on a fault, it stops.
I've seen people trapped in machinery as a Fire Officer before, it is not a nice situation to deal with.
The real thing here is not ME, but those that could (and probably will) be harmed by the gear that a company provides, if it is not looked after and maintained as per the manufacturers instructions.


[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-01-2006).]

BTW Fred,
Welcome to ECN.

Oh and one reason why I don't work in the meat industry anymore is because I happened to wire a band-saw control circuit backwards and cost a young worker a couple of fingers.
Hence me getting out of the trade for a while.
Sure we all make mistakes, that one was hard to comprehend.

Sorry about your bandsaw incident, I have made many expensive mistakes in my various careers, that were embarrassing and avoidable, like getting a 10,000.00 bearing stuck on a propeller shaft that had to be cut off and scrapped and almost caused a delay in the production schedule, and destroying a custom made gear assembly that took 6 weeks to manufacture. Nobody was hurt, but the embarrassment lives on.

As far as references go, I work as a subcontractor for the local power company. Before I could be considered for the contract, I had to pay for a background investigation on myself as well as drug screening. I had worked briefly for two EC's here, and they were contacted about my employment history, one was neutral and the other must have held a grudge because they did not give me a very good reference. It did not affect my contract, but it could very well have made a difference in another situation. I would document the actions of your former employer, and take some action to at least show the reasons for your leaving and to counter any adverse actions they may take against you in the future.

As far as references go...

Call it good, bad, or indifferent, but... our legal atmosphere -across the US- is such that an employer is pretty much limited to giving your dates of employment, as well as stating whether or not he would re-hire you. Say any more, and the lawyers have room to play.

The picture changes a bit with the answers to the folks at unemployment, who get expect a bit more in the way of answers. Left fot cause, quit, fired, layoff, pay details, etc.

Given such vagaries, a lot is left to the imagination of the caller, and some of them read all sorts of things between the lines. Whether these thoughts are accurate or not is another matter.