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Joined: Aug 2002
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Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools
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I notice the NFPA states that those "multi-tap adapters" are not allowed.

Why then, does Leviton (ditto Eagle Electric and Gem Electric) continue to manufacture them???? [Linked Image]

I see that OSHA flatly prohibits the socket-in-a-handybox kluge just like Joe Tedesco mentioned. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 12-26-2002).]

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Quote
4. All electrical enclosures such as switches, receptacles, junction boxes, FS covers, and plastic plates for duplex receptacles must be tight-fitting and properly sealed.

I just trimmed out a basement in a large dwelling, there are no plates on the devices, the lighting is merely pigtails.
The owner has decided to occupy this 'unfinished' dwelling, against my advise to him to do so.....
We have no OC here, and yes the obvious hazards exist in occuping an unfinished dwelling.
How is this then a liability of the EC ?


Quote

7. The Electrical Contractor is responsible for all trades cord sets on the job site. OSHA mandates that an assured grounding program be implemented that includes daily continuity checks on all electrical equipment and cord sets. This can be burdensome. As an alternative, OSHA permits the use of GFCI's in place for 15 and 20 amp 125 V AC circuits. This is a far more popular option.
Trades will commonly be on a renovation before the EC, and plug into any available source.
How then is this applicable to the EC if he/she is not even present as yet?
Quote

8. The use of multi-tap adapters are not permitted.
pot meet kettle... [Linked Image]
Quote

9. All portable electric tools and equipment at the site should be grounded or double insulated. If they are not, it's a violation.
who's violation?
does it also fall on the EC to inspect other trades tools? PLLLHHHHHEEEEEESSEEEE!!!!!!

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Most AHJ's would cite the EC if the electrical contractor takes out a permit for the temporary wiring to be used during the construction of a project!

The EC is responsible, and must show compliance with the rules in "ARTICLE 527 Temporary Installations" and must make this clear to the owner and GC.

[Linked Image] There is no time here for mumbo jumbo, and foolishness!


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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Joe,
there are areas where there have no permits, may not require one, or may have one pulled well into the job due to whenthe EC is asked into the job.


to place OSHA's responsibilities on the EC's back here without notice and/or any teeth is unfair.

unless you really think i'd rat out any of the carpenters (et all trades) i work with to OSHA?

an EC is not a de~facto OHSA representitive, and to insinuate that it falls on our trade to be so is mumbo jumbo in the highest order

Joined: Oct 2000
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sparky:

It may be true that in the State of Vermont, no permits, no inspections, etc., are required, and I will respect your position.

However, most of the other parts of our country do have some interest in workplace safety and will try to support the electrical safety rules.

Can you share any links to the State Electrical Inspector in Vermont or any of the cities or towns?

PS: Can I come to Vermont soon for a photo shoot of the wiring in a new shopping mall (or other new job)?


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Joined: Oct 2000
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Joe,
i do have an interest in workplace safety, i carry 3-prong male cord caps that i replace for the troops just to emphasize this a tad, and point out all the potential electrical hazards that i can gain an ear and/or act on....

i feel obligated, yet to be liable for some of the knuckle draggers here scares the H**L outta me.....

it's frustrating here, the inspectors know this all too well.... after all, many where seasoned EC's before serving as inspectors.

if anything else, they have a great web site,
here
is their e-mail
list.

first thing a new EC should do is talk to the local AHJ's, which i've taken every available opportunity to do so far....i just have trouble accepting that 'this is the way it is here' so to speak.

oh, my wife has given me a digital for Xmas, as soon as i figure it out i'll save you the trip and send you the 'hot' spots that i've been ranting about for years here....
Steve ~aka~ sparky



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 12-29-2002).]

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link

well i guess that won't work, try this link , go to the left under information and Resources click on 'Contact Us'

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 12-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 12-29-2002).]

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My little corner of ga.is much like sparky's Vermont. The ec doesn't usually see the job (residental) until the house is "dried in". Permits are required in some neighboring counties. The futher toward Atlanta the more like the rest of the country it becomes. Been working in this area for 20 years and never seen an osha man on a residental jobsite.If you ratted out the other trades ,the least that would happen is that your work would dry up, the worst would be that you and possibly the osha man would "never come back from copperhead road" I don't like it but until things change thats the way it is.

Joined: Dec 2002
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Gentlemen,

Leviton is passing bad information regarding OSHA! If this is the kind of OSHA compliance insight they are spreading at their compliance seminars then they have no business teaching. Tell them I (OSHA Professor)said that and be sure to give them my contact information. Anyone know who the president of Leviton is, and his or her e-mail. It won't be the first time that I've straightened out a president or CEO for spreading BS. That’s the kind of crap that gives a bad name to the Agency whose mission is “protecting Americas most valuable resource”, the worker! Hey gang, that’s you and I.

Leviton began that article with. “Offering safety related products and services to your customers is a good idea for three reasons”. And listed them. Then they began to talk OSHA. Well OSHA does not have jurisdiction over customers or the general public, only jurisdiction over employer / employee relationships. We don’t regulate what an EC does to it’s retail customers only what the EC does to his / her employees regarding safety and health.

OSHA does NOT fine or peanalize electrical contractors for cordsets brought on site and used by other trades. OSHA does NOT fine or penalize any trade or contractor for equipment brought on site by other trades, as long as there is no hazard created which exposes other trades. For example if an electrical contractor installed a temporary panel with outlets which were NOT GFCI protected and this was installed for the use of the various trades then the lack of GFCI’s would be a hazard whereby exposing the trades using those outlets. In that case the electrical contractor could also be cited in addition to the trades using those unprotected outlets. On the other hand if the outlets installed by the electrical contractor were properly grounded and GFCI protected, and some other contractor plugged HIS defective cordset (damaged insulation, improper splices, missing ground, etc) into that outlet then only the owner and users of that cordset would be citeable.

Although OSHA accepts either GFCI’s or an assured equipment grounding program (we adopted from earlier NEC Article 305), OSHA compliance investigators are seeing very little assured equipment grounding programs being used any more, only GFCI’s. This is because the current NEC’s do not allow assured equipment grounding programs for 120 volt branch circuits any more, so the other AHJ’s enforcing the current NEC requirements are driving the trends. Leviton is out of touch with what’s currently happening out there in the industry.

“All portable electric tools and equipment at the site should be grounded or double insulated. If they are not, it's a violation.” Yes but first of all, as you electrical specialists know, It’s A SERIOUS ELECTROCUTION HAZARD.
As for who gets the citation, the contractor providing the tool, and if other employees (other than his) are using those defective tools then their employer is also subject to citation. If a contractor provides that defective tool and only his employees are using that tool then only he will receive a citation.
It’s all part of OSHA’s “multi employer policy”. OSHA can cite the creating employer (who created the hazard), the exposing employer (who’s employees were exposed to the hazard), and the controlling employer (who controls the site) this is usually the GC.
OSHA has a requirement in our construction standards which requires employers to train their employees to all the hazards they are likely to encounter and to avoid those hazards. So if a carpenter removes a guard railing for fall protection and the EC's employees are exposed to the fall hazard (walking right by the edge instead of avoiding the hazard by staying away) then both employers could be cited. If, on the other hand the exposed employees avoid the hazard and notify their employer and their employer notifies the controlling and creating employers of the hazard they created then you are covering yourselves against cations under the multi employer policy. Understand this is an abbreviated description / explanation and more information on this can be obtained from the OSHA web site at www.osha.gov

As for “ratting out” other trades to OSHA and “de facto OSHA representative“. You are obviously too young to remember what the trades were like in terms of hazards and death to your brothers and sisters before there was an OSHA. Do you allow friends to drive while impaired or do you take their keys away or drive them instead? Don’t do anything like that with fellow brothers and sisters in the trades, you might save their lives, heck better to let them continue to be exposed to the serious hazards typically found on construction sites. Sooner or later the odds will catch up and someone will get hurt or killed. Then you might get to see that OSHA investigator.

“I see that OSHA flatly prohibits the socket-in-a-handy box kluge just like Joe Tedesco mentioned”
If that’s the box (either handy or 4 square) with prepunched knockouts being used on the end of a flexible cord then the answer is Yes. BTW OSHA adopted that from the NEC many years ago and until it got renotified in 2002 it was prohibited in article 370 - 23 and continues to be an NAPA (NEC) prohibition.. You make it sound like both a bad thing and a uniquely OSHA concept. Remember OSHA has very little electrical requirements that haven’ t been adopted from NFPA standards. Primarily NFPA 70 (NEC) and NAPA 70 E.
I see and hear stuff like this frequently on this forum. Here is a real news flash regarding electrical hazards and compliance. If you are in compliance with current NFPA 70 (the NEC) and NFPA 70 E, you are in full compliance with OSHA and will not get any (electrically related) fines. So the real question is, how closely do the EC’s follow these NFPA standards ?? Their bibles so to speak.

Hey gang, quit raggin on OSHA and go ragg on Leviton for BS’n you guys and passing out crap information. It kinda makes me wonder about the accuracy in their product advertising.

BTW in most cases by the time we hear about a residential job it’s over with. It’s definitely a problem in the way we have to randomly obtain and select sites to visit. By your own admissions sometimes permits aren't even obtained.
Perhaps our scheduling process will change someday to be able to get to more of these smaller residential projects.

I previously posted something on how OSHA schedules inspections on 12/8/02 on another thread. https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000333.html

Thanks for lending me your ears ladies and gentlemen. I wish you all a very safe and prosperous 2003.

[This message has been edited by OSHA Professor (edited 01-04-2003).]

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