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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,253
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djk Offline
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There's no reason why a system like that couldn't work in the UK.

Superflat flush versions would simply require deeper boxes from that point on.

There's also no reason why the UK would have non-fused schuko compatable outlets. The UK wall plate's quite different from most of the rest of Europe and I really doubt that anyone would go to the bother of trying to get a French or German outlet to fit a UK box.

You could even have a converter socket, similar to those sold for converting a single socket to a double socket / double socket to a triple socket.

They're basically a multi-way adaptor that is fixed to the wall over an exsiting socket and just plugs into it! Big ugly crude things but they do work.

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 223
A
Member
I'm having a hard time trying to believe all of this...the implications are enormous. What's wrong with leaving things as they are? I can't believe another plug and socket is about to be developed.

Quote
There is some information that the Israelis are working on a round pin design to replace their current standard with flattened pins. As I understand it, they will go for two standards

All I can say is how fortunate we are in the South Pacific region to have had the one standard plug since day one...and the Yanks must be thinking the same.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,253
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djk Offline
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CEE 7/7 is the defacto european standard and is used by hundreds of millions of people. It's most definitely not a new standard being developed. Apart from a few odd ball countries (Denmark, Italy, Switzerland, the UK & Ireland), CEE 7/7 plugs fit everywhere else.

Ignoring the UK system, the problem is that the Danish, Italian and some swiss outlets happily mate with a CEE 7/7 plug but make no earth/ground connection.

The UK system's not compatable with CEE 7/7, but for the sake of similicity it'd be handy if it were to be replaced.

As for the Israeli system, I have no idea what they're up to!
Adopting CEE 7/7 is the only decision that would make any sense. It may even be possible to make a CEE 7/7 compatable outlet that also accepts the exsisting Israeli system's plugs.

Israel however, doesn't have to do anything to EU standards if it doesn't want to.


It's not as complicated as it sounds in Europe.
Also, with non-grounded appliances, the 2-pin plugs fit everywhere (except the uk and ireland)


Also, you have to realise that the "French" (CEE 7/5) and "German" (CEE 7/4) [schuko] socket outlets are both fully compatable with CEE 7/7 plugs. It doesn't matter which type of outlet is used.

[Linked Image from content.answers.com]
CEE 7/7 plug + CEE 7/4 outlet (Schuko)

[Linked Image from static.castorama.fr]
French Type outlet (CEE 7/5)
The CEE 7/7 plug also mates perfectly with this.
(Used in France, Belgium and several Eastern European countries)

So, basically there's no problem other than in the non CEE 7/7 countries, which are very much in the minority.


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-05-2005).]

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,498
T
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Quote
The UK wall plate's quite different from most of the rest of Europe and I really doubt that anyone would go to the bother of trying to get a French or German outlet to fit a UK box.
I'm not that sure. I've done it the other way round without any trouble. The screws have exactly the same position an roughly the same diameter (European boxes use wood screws, but UK screws work).

Schuko plugs ddon't fit Italian and Swiss sockets because of the pin diameter (4.8mm vs. 4mm). Italian 16A plugs have 4.8mm pins but the pins are spaced further apart.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,443
Likes: 3
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C-H,
I actually had to look at your website to see what sort of plug they use in Israel.
I can't say I've seen one of them plugs before.
Is it only used in Israel?.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 93
J
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When they came on site from the software company Mercury, they all had those odd plugs.

They all seemed to not need an adaptor set, in Belgium: the laptop rechargers *did* indeed have funny plugs, but they fit in good old 16a nontheless.

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,498
Likes: 1
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C-H Offline OP
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@ Mike
Yes, it is only used in Israel and Palestine.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,498
T
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Ouch yes, I could imagine the flat pins of an israeli plug without earth might fit Schuko or French socktes... but the contact will be pretty bad! The next time I'm at the electrical workshop at school I'll have a try (the teacher has all kinds of plugs to show the students).

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,253
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djk Offline
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I'd be in favour of dropping Schuko in favour of the french system as it's polarisable and 100% compatable with all modern plugs... Just drop CEE 7/4 completely in favour of CEE 7/7.

You could easily polarise non-grounded plugs with the french system by simply adding a face plate with a single hole or having a plug that was wider at one side than the other.

You would also have to ensure that they were all installed with universal polairty across the EU on new installations.

I'm not sure if polarity on those outlets is strictly enforced in France/Belgium.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-07-2005).]

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 329
I
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Polarisation? Being that CEE 7/4 has never been polarised and I've been told that polarity has never been much of a concern in French wiring. I think trying to shift to a polarized standard would be a logistical nightmare. Being that polarisation of the plugs is nonexistant, all of the appliances are designed and wired so that polarity is not a concern anyway. Double pole power switches etc.

[This message has been edited by IanR (edited 10-07-2005).]

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