ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Company refused to connect cooker (range)

Paul,

That is a really good question. I haven't been out in the field in a few years, but at that time the local stores were telling customers they needed a 4 wire plug (and receptacle) - even if they only had a 3-wire cable!

I hope that they've wised up by now.

Bill

No one will install anything anymore over here. We had a washing machine delivered by Miele recently, they simply put it into the utility room and left it there as is in a crate for us to unpack and install.

Likewise for a cooker delivery, it just got left on the kitchen floor.

No one will take old appliances away without charging a heafty fee anyway as the disposal costs are pretty steep. They have to be returned to a materials recovery centre for safe recycling.

As for hooking up a cooker, didn't think an RCD was generally required on a cooker circuit in the UK ?

Over here you usually have a cable coming from a 45A double pole isolating switch near by and out via a plate, or more commonly, simply an uncovered box behind the cooker. It's then wired into the back of it.

Cooker termination units are a relatively new concept.

Nope, there's no requirement for an RCD on a range/cooker circuit at all, nor on water heaters, fixed space heaters, or any other large appliance.

BS7671 doesn't even specify an RCD for all socket outlets, only those which might reasonably be expected to be used to supply equipment used outdoors.


Pretty much the same here, although on older systems the "cooker control unit" with an integral 13A socket is more the norm.
Some of the skimpy installs don't even have a box behind the range, they just bring the cable out through the wall and plaster around it!


Haven't there been posts here about people changing a factory-fitted 3-wire cord for a 4-wire one but leaving the bonding strap in place as well? At least this is one problem we don't have here.

By the way, there would nothing against installing a suitable plug and receptacle combination for a range here -- it would probably have to be one the CEE (pin & sleeve) types -- but I don't think I've ever seen it done on domestic systems. Hardwire was and still is the norm.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 07-28-2005).]

Paul,

Yes, I've initiated some of these myself. In some cases the documentation that came with the appliance was really lacking clarity on what to do about it too.

In my area hardwired Ranges and Dryers have been the norm up until recently.

Bill

Ah yes.... I remember now. Somebody (was it you?) scanned the instructions which came with a range or dryer, and they were very misleading, or at least not very clear.

Natal, South Africa had these in all houses as it was traditional there to take the stove with you when you moved. Stoves however weren't sold with a lead so the install comprised making one from the individual components then plugging it in.

In the Transvaal, the law was different and the house *had* to be sold/rented with a stove in situ. There all the stoves were hardwired to the wall - often utilising the minimalist technique descibed above by Paul.


[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 07-30-2005).]

Thank God there is a thread like this here at the moment.
Next week, my sister is having her kitchen ripped out and a new one installed.
I said, seems I'm on holiday, I'll come down and do the Electrical part of the job.
Now, currently she has a free-standing range, fed by a 32A MCB, but what she want's put in is different.
She want's a Zanussi (sp?) cook-top and a Westinghouse Wall-oven.
Niether of which have the stated current draw on the Installation sheets that come with the appliances.
I'd sort of like to know how to feed these and how to fuse them??.
It's been a wee while since I did Domestic work.

{Sorry about the Thread-jack Paul}

If the person buying is happy to accept the place without a stove, why should it be anybody else's business? That's a good example of yet another petty, freedom-reducing law, in my opinion.

I wonder how this could apply to the sale of a part-built house which isn't finished off?


That's a situation which is becoming quite common here as people refurbish kitchens and replace an all-in-one range with separate units.

The cooktop generally has to be wired directly to the 30A cooker circuit to allow for the the potential load (could be 6kW or so with all rings on full).

The separate ovens (if the single type) are generally rated much lower, maybe 1500 or 2000W. Many of them here are supplied with a 3-core 1.5 mm butyl rubber flex ready for connection.

Unfortunately, the most common DIY form of connection seems to be to just shove the 1.5 flex from the oven into the same terminals as the cooktop. If tapped from the existing cooker circuit, a fused spur unit is really called for (although I don;t think you have them in NZ, do you?).

Ovens are sometimes run on a 13A fused spur from the kitchen ring (not applicable in NZ either!), although I'd be very careful about how much load is already likely to be present.

Given a new install or a major refit where everything is accessible, my preference would be to run a dedicated 16A circuit for the oven.

Paul said...
At the risk of going off topic Paul, that law was probably the least "freedom-reducing" one on the statutes of that country at the time!

I have no idea of its origin but the Transvaal and Free State carried over much from the Dutch way of things and Natal from the British.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but it may be of interest that RSA stoves were capable of being wired up to 3 phase wye though I never saw one thus wired. They came supplied with a busbar connecting the three loads - usually two hotplates each on two phases and the oven, grill and ancillaries on the third.


[This message has been edited by Hutch (edited 07-30-2005).]

Trumpy, you mentioned that your sisters' oven and cook-top were supplied with incorrect information on the Installation Sheets regarding max load current. Did these sheets overstate or understate the current ?

I am curious about this as I have recently seen wall ovens which are not marked with max load current or a kilowatt rating on the appliance itself. This information is only available on the installation sheets.

The appliance standard ( AS3100 ) states that all appliances shall be indelibly marked in a position adjacent to the cord entry or supply terminals, with the power consumption details ( current or kW ).

It would appear that the importers are ignoring the standards.

I wouldn't be the first to suggest that electrical importers be licensed so that they may be held accountable for the safety of the products they peddle.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that:

Right now Joe Sparky is saddled with the liability of non-compliant products that he installs. The importer who he bought the product from is not.

Also that: enquiries by the Ministry of Commerce into non-compliant products are only initiated in accident cases where the product has caused injury or serious monetary loss to its owner.

This can't be right can it ?

As for your oven and cook-top Trumpy, you can feed a 16A outlet ( for the oven ) and a 32A outlet ( for the cooktop ) with your 32A circuit. You are only required to protect the cable to the outlet. Not the outlet itself.

Is this right ?