ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades New U.K. color code

I'd just to stress that this wasn't something the EU forced upon the UK, it was something the UK forced upon the EU. In fact, IEE forced the whole of Europe to change colour coding just so that it could change in the UK. AND STILL BLAME THE EU!

By the way: Did you know virtually all myths about the EU originate in the UK?

While I don't have any exact figures as far as I am aware the number of deaths by electrocution in Western Europe is quite low per 1000 people. I wouldn't think that the UK's are any worse / better than most other EU countries.

Remember that many other EU countries have far stricter regulation than the UK on a whole range of issues. I don't think it's at all fair to call non-UK European regs "mickey mouse" From a German/Swiss/French/Scandinavian perspective one could equally point at many aspects of the UK system and call it "mickeymouse".

Many British commentators seem to base their view of non-British electrical systems entirely on one bad experience with a French Gite (rented converted farm building) with 1930s wiring or on a very very very cheap holiday apartment in Spain.

However, getting back to the thread, I would be interested to see if damaged ring circuits caused by DIY botching leads to an increased number of house fires. Although, I doubt that data would be as easy to find as deaths due to electrocution.


To give you the Irish 2002 (latest I could find) statistics:

Fatal Accidents invloving electricity : 4
Locations:
Field (Farm): 2
Building under construction : 1
Electrical Substation (indoor) : 1

Voltage level:
380/220V (LV) : 1
10/20kV (MV) : 3

Equipment involved:

Overhead line : 2
Transformer: 1
Flex: 1

Installation Equipment Defects:
Not known / no defect : 4

2001 : 4
Locations:
Reception/Dining/Bedroom : 1
Outhouse (farm) : 1
Field (farm) : 1
Road (fallen line) : 1

Voltage Level:
380/220V (LV) : 2
10/20kV (MV) : 1
> or = 38kV : 1

Equipment involved:
Overhead Line : 2
Cable or Wiring: 1
Fixed Apperatus : 1

Installation Equipment Defects:
Earthing Ineffective : 1
Parts not normally live not earthed : 1
Not Known / No Defect : 2

Total Population 3.9 million people.



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 05-16-2004).]

I'd like to see the facts for that opinion. The Colours of cables in Europe have been the same ad infinitum as far as I am aware, and have certainly not changed in my 21 years in the industry.

Regarding safety...France: Direct Shock Deaths for 2002: 1231 DEAD!!!

France, Spain, Portugal have the worst records in the EU, the best records are certainly across Scandinavia as they have the tightest regulations and very little DIY.

That will all change now we have taken on the East Europeans...I have been their regularly (ex-wife was Lithuanian-Russian), and the standard there is truly shocking!!

Thanks for that, but I have created an even better one than that for the AE3..
www.ae3.org.uk/technical/colour_changes.htm



[This message has been edited by FWL_Engineer (edited 05-16-2004).]

Just to be very picky the statistics given were for England and Wales not the entire UK

England : 49,181,000 (2001)
Wales: 2,903,000 (2001)

= 52,084,000

This would alter the stats a bit as you're out by almost 8 million people.

Scotland : 5,064,000 (2001)
Northern Ireland: 1,689,000 (2001)

There may be some slight shifts in those by 2004 but they shouldn't be too far off.

Where did you get those French stats?!?!

In 1998 in France there were 9 work related deaths due to electricity.

In 1994 : 116 deaths due to electrocution in France (Work or non work related)

Total population of France 57,566,100 (1994)

While it's higher than the UK per head of population it's no where near the figure you quoted!

Where did you get that figure?

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 05-16-2004).]

Regulars will already know my opinion about the EU, but I think we're in danger of straying too far into politics here if we're not careful.

On the harmonized cable issue, I think we can apportion a share of the blame all round. The adoption of blue as neutral throughout most of the Continent and for flexes in the U.K. some 30-odd years ago was a bad decision, in my opinion. Admittedly the U.K. and Ireland were not part of the then-EEC at that time, but if future harmonization was truly in mind, as it must have been, then consideration should have been given to the fact that most British-influenced countries used blue as a phase.

The fact that most European countries then adopted a combination of brown and black for phase colors (i.e. all brown, brown plus 2 blacks, or black plus 2 browns) was another bad move in that it left no phase distinction in the color code.

The U.K. insisted -- rightly, I believe -- that any harmonized scheme must provide for phase identification, but then made the mistake of proposing gray as one of those colors.

We now have a mish-mash of a system which conflicts not only with everybody else's idea of which color should be which conductor but also with our own old/existing system.

I'll echo DJK's question here on the source, as that does sound a very high figure indeed.

Although not specific to electricity, there was a BBC program some time ago which was relating the work safety statistics of the U.K. and France. I seem to recall it being said that worksite accidents in France were no higher than the U.K., despite the fact that France has no direct equivalent of Britain's H.S.E. (Health & Safety Executive).

That 1231 is incorrect..it should have been 121..I didn't see the 3 creep in..Apologies.

The figures come from the French themselves and include all fatal deaths by electrocution in France.

Now whether they have included French territories in that figure I do not know, but from personal experience in France..working..I would not be surprised to find out that it is accurate.

At that rate the probability of getting electrocuted in either the UK or France is pretty miniscule!

The very slightly higher rate in France could be attributed to any number of factors.

The UK has one unique difference. The original system of domestic wiring was so impractical that it had to be completely replaced during the 1950s and 1960s. Older houses in the UK used a vast array of BS546 sockets of at least 3 different and completely incompatable sizes.

British houses wired before the 1950s often had 1 15A socket in the kitchen for the kettle another by the fireplace for the "electric fire" and a few tiny 5A sockets scattered around for lamps and the "wireless" (radio).

By the 1950s these systems were completely inadequate due to the arrival of countless domestic appliences. The sollution was to introduce BS1363 and ring circuits, making re-wiring relatively simple.

On the otherhand, in ALL European countries domestic wiring was always based on radial circuits but the design of sockets and circuits was a little more sensible than BS546 and did not require any drastic changes. "Schuko" and the French grounded outlet have been around for quite a LONG time as have their now phased-out non-grounded counterparts.

The result has been that older wiring has managed to stay in service for much longer as it's often quite adequate and is not incompatable with modern plugs.

Older French houses that have not been rewired will sometimes still have non-grounded outlets in areas that will quite happily accept a 16A CEE 7/7 plug without completing the earth connection. (The later grounded sockets didn't accept the fatter pins of grounded plugs)

I would suspect that accidents caused by Class I appliences being used without an earth connection would account for the very slightly higher rate.

If you walked into a UK house with 1930s/40s wiring you physically wouldn't be able to insert a modern plug.

Compulsary RCDs in most European countries have, however, done a lot to reduce fatalities.

Ireland's fatality rate before the introduction of manditory RCDs in 1980 was substantially higher.

Almost all accidents here are now caused by the "darwin factor".. There's not a lot you can do if someone insists on doing bad DIY work or driving a tractor through 20kV powerlines.