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Joined: Sep 2002
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C-H Offline OP
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This has already happened in other countries. It forces contractors to reduce the mark-up on materials and charge by the hour.

Joined: Aug 2002
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Trumpy,

The wire sizes that you say this DIY shed is selling, are these the standard sizes used for the interior wiring of a home (to power points, switches and lightbulbs) or are these meant for commercial/industrial wiring?

How much does an electrical supplier grill you before selling you a piece of cable to replace a damaged length in your wall? I appreciate their concern, but sometimes I can find it a bit annoying. [Linked Image]

Anyway....I wonder if the supplier is worried that an incompetent doof might screw up the installation, set his house on fire or whatever and then go sue the store that sold him the wire because "it was faulty" or something.

Joined: Dec 2001
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The wire sizes are (very) roughly 16 to 14 AWG. 1mm2 would be used for lighting (max. 6A), 1.5 for general purpose (10 or 13A, fuse or breaker), 2.5mm2 = 16A and 4mm2 = 20A. So it's mostly stuff for home-brew wiring.

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Hmmmm.......

I appreciate concerns over whether somebody is competent enough to carry out his own wiring, but I didn't realize that NZ previously didn't offer cables for sale in the big chains.

As somebody who has always lived in places where anyone can walk into a DIY store and buy electrical accessories off the shelf, no questions asked, I would find it very hard to accept a more restrictive regime.

Joined: Jul 2002
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Paul and others.
Whoa!!.
Sorry, but I may have actually given you guys the impression that you can't buy anything Electrical here, unless you are Qualified.
This is not the case, but, you can only purchase switches, socket-outlets, dimmers and the like, to connect to already run fixed wiring.
If you run your own wiring, a Registered Electrician is required to certify and connect the said wiring, to the supply, wherever that supply point is in the installation.
Connecting this yourself, will void your insurance cover, if there is a problem down the track.
Ragnar,
Those are pretty conservative current ratings.
Here we would have 1mm protected by a 10A C-Curve MCB, 1.5mm on a 16A MCB, 2.5mm on a 20A MCB and 4mm on a 25A MCB.
You can also use lower current rating MCB's on a given circuit, where current-limiting is required over very long runs.
Just as a note, TPS cable is used for Domestic, Commercial and Industrial Installations here, the only thing that differs between the Grades, is the amount of Mechanical Protection, ie: PVC or Steel Conduit covering it. [Linked Image]

Joined: Dec 2001
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i took the Austrian ratings. German ratings are a bit less conservative, 1.5mm2 up to 16A, 2.5mm2 20 A and 4mm2 25A. Here you'd have to use 6mm2 for 25A. 1mm2 isn'T old for fixed wiring any more (that more or less died out along with the cloth covered wires). Standard wiring for general purpose circuits would be 1.5mm2 with 13A B curve MCB. Dedicated circuits for dishwashers and washing machines are usually 2.5mm2 16A B-MCB. C MCBs are only used for heavier motors, etc. If you ask the Baumax guys they'll tell you: "B for home wiring, C if you got a workshop or something like that." Some shops don't carry 13A MCBs, then you have to take 10A. I've never seen 6A MCBs here, and 6A Diazed fuses disappeared quite some time ago. Any load exceeding 16A is fed with 3ph. Most DIY stores carry 1.5 and 2.5 mm2 NYM and 1.5, 2.5 and 4mm2 conduit wire, for anything thicker you have to ask an electrician. He probably won't ask any questions if you buy sizes up to 2.5mm2, even though you're actually not even allowed to open a plug. If you want to buy 6mm2 conduit wire, black, blue, brown and yellow-green he'll probably ask you what you want to do because the only use of such a beast that comes to my mind would be a meter feeder.

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OK, not so bad in NZ as first thought then. I think most people from Britain would still find it rather restrictive however.

In my experience, the majority of people here simply would not like the government telling them what work they may or may not carry out themselves on their own house.

So far as I'm aware, the only actual restrictions in place are those which make it illegal for anyone but a CORGI-registered engineer to connect gas appliances or work on gas lines.

* CORGI = Confederation Of Registered Gas Installers

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djk Offline
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Interesting how they don't let you buy larger cables.

Does this lead to people doing DIY wiring with undersized cables?

E.g. if someone attempted to wire in a cooker or large water heater?

Paul: Speaking of cable sizes. I have noticed a lot of problems wiring certain new cookers here in Ireland that are obviously aimed at the European market. They have a 220/380 option..

The cooker has 5 terminals:
N
L1
L2
L3
L123 (connects across all phases)

The problem is that inserting the heavy cable used here for cookers is VERY difficult as the terminals seem to be designed for flex (The 3 phase set up would have thinner cables). Solid cable is normally used here for cooker connections not multi stranded stuff.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 11-11-2003).]

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The big DIY chains here stock almost all items likely to be used for a typical residential system.

My local B&Q carries the following:

* Twin-&-earth in sizes 1 through 10 sq. mm.

* Triple-&-earth in 1 and 1.5mm

* Singles, 16 and 25mm for meter tails

* Earth cable, 4, 6, 10, and 16mm

* A wide range of flexes, including heat-resistant 2.5mm

* Wylex NH range panels, 2-way right up to 12-way with main switch or RCD, and MCBs 6A through 40A.

* Wylex standard range fuses and MCBs

* Earth rods and clamps

* The usual range of switches, sockets, fused spur connections, mounting boxes, junction boxes, strip connectors, cable clips, etc.

I don't remember seeing SWA cable and associated parts there.

Quote
The cooker has 5 terminals:
N
L1
L2
L3
L123 (connects across all phases)
I'm not quite following you. The ones I've seen here have L1, L2, L3, N, and are usually supplied with a strap to link all three phase terminals together for single-phase operation.

Are you saying you've seen some models with an extra terminal which in turn has removable straps to the other three phase terminals?

I know what you mean about the terminal sizes though. Some of them seem to be very undersized these days.

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Probably they're designed for a max. of 2.5mm2 stranded. A cooker isn't considered a fixed appliance, so a flexible cord is absolutely required. Typical cooker wiring here in Vienna is either 5x2.5mm2 flex to a cord outlet behind the cooker (blank plate with a hole for the cord and a strip connector inside) or 3x1.5mm2 flex with Schuko plug. In this case the elements are locked, so you can't turn them on all at once and overload the cable/trip the breaker. Since more or less any service is 3ph up to the meter upgrading isn't too expensive, hence the single phase version is pretty rare. it is mostly designed for camping vans, trailers etc, as on campsites you'll hardly get 380V. Single phase services are AFAIK only up to 25A, so hooking up a cooker to that with full load would definitely be a problem.

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