ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Receptacle Challenge

To Bill, thanx for posting that piccy, so that the other guys could see what I was rambling on about, and to SvenNYC and C-H also, for their examples ~ much appreciated .

Plugman,

Glad to help, (and Welcome to ECN !)


Bill

check this interesting site on plug systems
http://kropla.com/electric2.htm

i know you guys have probably talked over this in the past, but in europe polarity doesnt seem as inportant as it is here in the UK, why is this,

Paul C, it has come up in discussion before especially when discussing an ideal/universal plug-socket system. Apparently it is mainly historical in that early European 220V supplies were derived from two phases of a 3 phase, 127V to ground wye system and thus polarity was not an issue. According to posts on this forum, there are scattered places in Western Europe where this system is still in use.

In my mind, this does not make a non-polarised, single phase, 230V to ground plug system right – but then I am a known ‘polarist’ around here

PaulC:

Interesting, was looking up Ireland in that site and apparently French type sockets/plugs are one of our standards! Have never seen one in use here and schuko is long gone.

On the polarity issue in Europe.

All modern european appliences conforming to various directives are designed to be used on a non-polarised system and would normally contain a double pole switch (i.e. it cuts both the live and neutral).

Even if there is only single pole switching
For the vast majority of appliences, except lamp sockets, this isn't a bit issue. Even if the neutral is switched and the applience will stop working, the circuit is broken. The only risk would be if you opened the casing and poked around as you could find a live part.

In the case of lamps if the neutral is switched off the lamp will go off but one of the pins in the holder would remain live. So if you were dumb enough to switch off the lamp and stick your finger in you would get a shock. However, even in the UK you risk this as the lamp could very easily be wired incorrectly. Lamp terminals are particularly fiddly and often DIY jobs!. So you should ALWAYS remove the plug before changing a bulb.

And ALWAYS remove the plug before servicing any applience. It's just pure stupidity not to.

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Also many appliences which have "figure of 8" connectors (e.g. a lot of audiovisual equipment) is completely unpolarised as you can insert the plug either way.

Also, if a europlug is used in any kind of adaptor, including the new "convertor plugs" where the europlug is fitted inside what looks like a normal BS1363 plug the applience could be connected either way.

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In terms of fusing it doesn't actually matter in a european system where the fuse is not carried in the plug. The live is always fused in the fixed wiring so if an MCB or fuse blows the live will be cut.

(The UK and Ireland being unique requiring a fused plug! again for historical reasons due to the use of very thin flexes etc)


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Some people seem to make a big deal out of a single-pole switch on an appliance which could end up in the neutral.

Yes, it will leave the "innards" live when switched off. If someone who doesn't know what he's doing opens up the case and pokes around inside with the device still plugged in he could touch live terminals anyway.

There are a few instances where correct polarity is a consideration, and to cover those cases we need polarized plugs and sockets to be available. But most of the time, I believe that Britain makes far too much fuss about this.

I would actually consider IEEs regulatory approach a little weird they seem to tend to get obcessed with one or two details while ignoring a lot of other areas that need review and perhaps they could even learn (shock horror!) from European practice in some instances.

E.g. Why did they allow very primative rewirable fuses to remain for so long when Diazed/Neozed was around and in use all over the place?!

Ireland's ECTI (the equivilant of the IEE) has tended to shop around for best practices worldwide and I think we're finally seeing some really sensible regulations. We've aspects of IEE regs, aspects of German etc etc.

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 10-19-2003).]

This is certainly one area where Britain lagged WAY behind until very recently.

The IEE and other committees didn't even have to look as far away as using those "weird foreign" Diazed fuses. We've had our own BS1361 cartridge fuses for decades.

I remember "When I'm 64" by the Beatles. One of the lyrics talked about "mending a fuse". I did not know what this meant until I visited my brother's father in law while in England. He showed how to fix a fuse using fuse wire.

As a youngster, I remember fuseboxes had plain old screw-in lamp style fuses.

That was in the 1960s...circuit breakers have long replaced fuses.