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#136341 12/24/03 10:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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djk Offline
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Here are a few pics of the Dublin Tram system "Luas" which is currently under construction.

[Linked Image from allaboutbuses.com]
Dublin bus and tram side-by-side

Here's a picture of the DART (Dublin Area Rapid Transit) local commuter rail system. (built in 1980 Linke-Hoffmann-Busch Germany)

These operate on Irish standard guage 1600mm and at 1500V DC

One of the original units:
[Linked Image from asahi-net.or.jp]

Newer Mitsui DART trains:

[Linked Image from mitsui.co.jp]

Built by Alstom and Mitsui


The Arrow (Diesel-hydrolic equivilant to DART used in Cork and Dublin commuter services)
[Linked Image from caf.es]

CAF (Spain) and Mistui (Japan)

[Linked Image from mercurio.iet.unipi.it]



[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-24-2003).]

#136342 12/25/03 07:06 AM
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C-H Offline
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Quote
Irish standard guage 1600mm

Ireland has its own gauge???

#136343 12/25/03 12:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
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Okay, a few more bits of transportation history. In the great railway age several private railway companies built huge railway stations in Vienna (Emperor Ferdinand north railway, Empress Elisabeth west railway, Emperor Franz-Joseph railway,...). With several steps of city enlargements some public transportation system had to be established. Around 1850 the first horse-drawn tramways opened, then there were three steam tram lines. In 1892 the Imperial-Royal Austrian state railways decided to build the "Stadtbahn", an urban steam train network linking the main stations. As an architect they got famous Otto Wagner who designed about _everything_ from the stations to the wooden benches at the platforms. Back then there were four lines, Suburb line, Guertel line, Wiental line and Danube canal line.

[Linked Image from members.chello.at]

In 1918 the steam service was cancelled due to coal shortages. In 1924 the city of Vienna agreed to lease the Wiental- Guertel- and Danube canal line from the Federal railways and electrify the lines. In 1925 the "Vienna Electric Stadtbahn" opened using 2-axle tram cars that could be used in the tram network if the Railways ever wanted the Stadtbahn back. Up to nine of these cars (three motorcars and six trailers) were combined in trains and could be operated by a single driver in the first motorcar. Power system was 750V DC catenary.

[Linked Image from members.chello.at]

During summer the doors were usually open since no one cared to close them.

In 1954 the city decided to get some new cars. Since the general public was oriented against public transportation they didn't buy the intended 6-axle articulated cars but built new 2-axle cars using several electrical parts of the old cars. this process was finished in 1961 when the last cool type N car with open sliding doors and real wooden seats pulled into the depot. N1 cars had automatic doors and some other advantages. Most of all the new doors kept the Russian soldiers from jumping off the running train [Linked Image]
(There have been several fatal accidents with drunk Russian soldiers doing exactly that).

[Linked Image from members.chello.at]

During the 1970ies there were several scary accidents involving the N1 cars, mostly faulty brakes. From 1976 to 1981 the Wiental and danube canal line was gradually converted to heavy rail subway with 95cm high platforms (Stadtbahn platforms were only 35 cm above top of rail, like all railway platforms in Austria) and third rail power system. The Guertel line got new articulated cars (type E6, looking like type E2) in 1980 and in 1983 the last N1 went it's way into eternity. In 1988 the Guertel line was converted to right-hand driving and is now also called subway, though incompatible to all other subway lines.
Many more (and better quality) pics can be found at http://www.tramway.at/h/stadtbahn.html

[This message has been edited by Texas_Ranger (edited 12-25-2003).]

#136344 12/25/03 04:01 PM
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I did a little web research and it looks like we do have a weird standard gauge of 1600mm

Standard "Stephenson" gauge 1435mm / 4'8" was used on the first railway line that opened here Dublin - Kingston (opened 1835) but it was replaced by " Irish gauge" which is 1600mm or 5'3"

1600mm is used for all lines in Ireland (Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland)

(Also used in parts of Australia (being converted to standard gauge), new zealand, and in Germany for the Badische Staatsbahn)


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-29-2003).]

#136345 12/26/03 07:07 AM
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The standard gauge in the U.K. is 4' 8 1/2", adopted in the 19th century. Other gauges were used though, most notably the broad gauge of the Great Western Railway, which was around 7 ft. It was converted to standard gauge in, I think, the 1890s.

Apparently on the island of Jersey part of the track was built to German standards during the occupation in WWII. The remainder was British standard gauage, and for many years everything had to be re-loaded onto the correct wagons at the changeover points.

On the issue of disused stations, there are quite a few on the London Underground (subway system):


http://www.starfury.demon.co.uk/uground/


P.S. For tram/streetcar fans, be sure to check the "Kingsway Underpass" page for an interesting relic of the days of London trams. [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-26-2003).]

#136346 12/29/03 05:20 PM
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djk Offline
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Here's a rather rare colour picture of the last Dublin Tram at Howth, Co. Dublin in 1959.

[Linked Image from angelfire.com]

It shows the overhead cable and trailing arm PaulUK described.

#136347 12/30/03 11:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
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Vienna abandoned the trailing arm system pretty soon in favor of so-called lyra power pick-ups. They looked really cool! In the late 1940ies scissor style power pickups came up and were replaced by standard pantographs in the late 60ies. The last cars with scissor pickups were the type C1 that were taken out of service in 1996.

#136348 12/30/03 11:53 AM
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djk Offline
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The old trailing arm pick up system looks really unreliable but from what I've heard of the old systems they worked quite effectively for 50 + years.

I'm just curious as to why on the DART system in Dublin the pantagraph contacts two wires simultaniously one on each side. Most systems I've seen pics of here seem to have just one. Is it just splitting the load over 2 cables? or is it actually getting a hot + neutral connection overhead?

I know the DART was operated over non-continiously welded track in the past. I don't think the line had been drastically upgraded since the 1800s smile

How is the circuit normally made? Takes power from above and uses the tracks as a neutral?

I know absolutely nothing about train power systems smile

Although I've seen "third rail" systems in NYC that looked leathal. Same system used in the UK?

[This message has been edited by djk (edited 12-30-2003).]

#136349 12/30/03 12:17 PM
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So far as I know, all the old tram systems in Britain used a single hot line with the return via the running rails.

Trolley buses were introduced in some cities (including London), running with conventional rubber tires and steering gear to give them greater maneuverability in heavy traffic. They were still restricted by the need for overhead power pickups, and because no return was available via the wheels, they used two trailing arms like the one in the Dublin picture.

Quote
Although I've seen "third rail" systems in NYC that looked leathal. Same system used in the UK?
Over here, third rail electrification is most closely associated with the old Southern Region (serving the area from London down to the South Coast).

That railway used (and still uses) third rail extensively, again with the return via the running rails. The 3rd rail is just completely exposed; at least in the NYC subway system they have a running board over the top of the rail.

The London Underground was originally lines owned by different companies, and some used a 3rd rail electrification system, but they were all gradually standardized on the four-rail system, keeping traction current out of the running rails. You can see the twin conductor rails here:

[Linked Image from trainweb.org]


It's quite an unusual arrangement, with about +420V on the positive (outer) conductor rail, and -210V on the negative (central) rail. The exception is where tracks are shared with the mainline electric trains (above ground). On those portions the central rail is bonded to earth and the running rails, and the full +630V applied to the positive rail, thus making the tracks compatible with standard 3rd rail trains.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-30-2003).]

#136350 12/30/03 12:43 PM
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In some cases, three phase traction has been used, mainly in Italy. This requires two or three catenaries. However, it would look different from the way it does in the Irish picture.

When you use the rail as return, you need to suck the current back into a return conductor at certain intervals. The earth is a good conductor and stray voltage effects would be a serious problem if you didn't do this. Hutch posted a good article on this here

There are transformers based on the same principle for use with the supply to ordinary buildings too, used to limit the current that escapes via waterpipes and similar in PME systems.

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