ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades New laws for U.K. Domestic wiring?

Paul,
I'd just like to pick up on a point in the List of Non-Notifiable work, that I think has been overlooked.
IMHO, I think that the Upgrading of an Earthing/Equipotential Bonding Conductor, is a task that should be left to suitably qualified persons only.
The Electrical Safety level of an Installation, DEPENDS on it's Earthing/Bonding conductors, should one of these be of inadequate size, installed incorrectly or damaged during installation, who will carry the can for the deaths/injuries caused, by this, because any DIY person would plead ignorance.

Indeed. As I said above, I don't think the new rules will have much impact anyway as they'll be almost unenforceable, but assuming that those drafting them into law actually believe that they will be complied with, why on earth (<-pun intended! ) would they deliberately exclude something this important?

I don't know whether you recall, but some time ago I mentioned a "DIY Electrics" video tape that I saw a few years ago. It was supposedly an "easy" guide to simple electrical projects for the house -- Adding an outlet, changing a simple light circuit to 2-way (3-way) switching, and so on.

The instructions given for some of these tasks were confusing enough, and made the mistake of assuming that the existing wiring was done in one particular configuration. Some parts were so confusing that I had to sit down with paper, pencil, and pause button and sketch out what was going on in order to follow it, so what hope was there for the average DIYer?

But the final section of that tape actually went on to installing equipotential bonding conductors. I couldn't figure out just why they included that with the other projects on the tape.

The whole thing was so badly presented that when I returned it (it was from the local library) I voiced my concerns over its content to the librarian and suggested that they withdraw it.

Paul,
I've seen them DIY video's before and they certainly rang true to the theory that:
There are those that DO it and there are those that write about it!.
I have had the same problem, in Ashburton, with people getting library books that are written to the UK Wiring Regs and I have had many a confusing phone call asking questions about BESA boxes and Consumer Units.
I must say, I know what a BESA box is now anyway, if nothing else!.

Paul,
I have just downloaded and read the proposed changes to your Regulations.
And my God, that writing style is hard to read.
But could I please raise a few points from the text of that document:

• The last parts of this text mentions the use of RCD's, quite a bit, the PC way, these days to effect Electrical Safety, is to just slap an RCD on it,regardless of what the standard of the work is like.
• It is interesting to note the difference in Safety levels(No. of Injuries/Deaths),up to the metering/main switch and on the other side of the PoCo equipment, is this because no DIYer would dare touch a supply they could not turn off?.
• IMHO all of this legislation could be avoided by bringing back across-the-board Inspections of all new installation work, regardless of who did it.
• I had an unusual feeling of deja-vu reading that document, I read one similar to it in 1992, over here, in 1993, we got Self-Certification and there is not one Electrician that I have met yet that likes this system, it targets the wrong people.

There do seem to be those who look upon the RCD as the universal answer to electrical safety. The way that these things are sometimes (often) marketed in the U.K. is something which concerns me.

Too many times the advertising or sales pitch implies "Fit an RCD and there's no way you can get a bad electric shock." It doesn't actually say that in so many many words, but that's the impression that many people are left with.

I've had to explain numerous times that athough the RCD certainly offers a high degree of protection and is to be recommended, it cannot guard against all possible electrocution hazards. It doesn't even offer the level of protection of the 4-6mA trip American GFI, being a 30mA type. And if someone gets across phase and neutral, and there isn't simultaneously at least 30mA getting to ground through him, it's not going to help one bit, is it?

Maybe, but as far as domestic is concerned here I think that most everyone realizes that everything up to and including the meter is PoCo owned, sealed, and off-limits. No need to touch it for your extra lighting or outlets (unless someone was trying to get "free juice", of course ).

By the way, even a lot of otherwise fairly knowledgeable DIYers have no idea about outside lines and distribution. I've had quite a few ask about the power coming in on "those 240V supplies with three wires across the top of the pole." Turns out they were looking at 11kV distribution lines!


Despite the lack of any legal requirements for domestic wiring in England, there was a time when at least the PoCo guy who came to install the meter and connect power would carry out basic tests: Earth continuity, insulation, etc. Somewhere along the way, that got swept aside and the attitude of most now seems to be "What happens when it leaves the meter is nothing to do with us."

Paul,
I never knew that the American GFCI had a trip current of only 4-6mA, I assumed that it was 30mA, like ours, this is half of the 10mA level we use over here for Patient Care areas in Medical Facilities!.
Regarding inspections, I think that these days, the Dollar(or Pound!), seems to be more important, than silly ideas about Public safety.
I guess this is why the buck keeps getting passed between legislatory authorities,
it's the old NIMBY attitude again.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 04-18-2003).]

I also think it is a shame that Rcd's are seen by people as the be all and end all of safety. It is not only the average person either, some of our electricians and regulators seen them in the same light.
We have a rule in Australia and I assume the same rule in NZ, but Trumpy could confirm that, which says that when designing a circuit it does not have to meet the requirements for loop impedance if an RCD is fitted. Why through out good circuit design and rely on a safety device, why can't they supplement each other?
I have also talked to a lot of electricians about the way they run cables in ceiling spaces and how they prevent conductive building material from contacting the back of points, their answer is that if in the unlikely event anything becomes live there is no great danger, because it is on a safety switch. I then point out to them we had a pretty bad case here where a person received a shock in the ceiling and ended up in intensive care, the circuit was on a safety switch, but it didn't stop him falling through the ceiling, since the shock caused him to lose his balance on the trusses.

We now have limited inspections back in some states of Australia now, and it is finding a lot of disturbing mistakes by contractors.

At least inspecting a small proportion of contractors work is bringing back and educational benefit to the industry, what is the general thought out there?

Dapo,
Would you believe that I can't find a reference to that clause in the AS/NZS3000:2000?, it's probably in there, I just can't find it ATM.
Regarding your comments on the use of the RCD as a panacea to electrical safety, the fault-loop impedance is one of the most important quantities in an installation, if its too high, you get a problem of not having enough Excess Current to "blow" protective devices.
I don't personally use RCBO's(MCB-RCD), I like to be able to select my own form of Short-circuit protection, as not all installations are the same.
Talking about accidents caused by RCD protected circuits, one of the first call-outs I ever done as a Faults-man, was in a public hall, where a Plumber was electrocuted when he contacted the Foil insulation under the floor, which was live at 230V and it was due to a circuit that was on a RCD, too, which didn't trip, because the mechanism had frozen solid(It had NEVER been checked regularly) and I had to hit the toggle to even move it from the ON position.
Dapo, if they started fully inspecting things over here again, we'd have to build another two prisons!.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 04-25-2003).]

by CH

The problem with that is that it screws over those of us who do know what we're doing and are smart enough to call a pro when we KNOW it's out of our league.

Yes, there should be people who should be kept away from electric work at all costs, but:

I wouldn't be happy if I had to take a day off from work to go to City Hall to pull a permit and pay a US$10 fee (for example) to change the cracked US$1.50 wall socket or switch in my house. Would you?

Frankly I don't know what the best thing to do is...becasue I'm biased. I have a grasp of the basic concepts and know my limits and restricting the sale of basic wiring devices to licenced people only would screw me over.

Sven,
I think that a like-for-like replacement should be excepted, in this case.
Only where new installation work takes place
should there be a restriction.
One thing I would like to see, is that they have people at hardware stores that sell electrical gear, to have some sort of idea about the basics of Electricity or Electrical work, how are they supposed to know what wiring system is legal or what type of fiiting complies for such and such installation?.