ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Who's responsible?

So... If there's a serious accident in Belgium after the wiring has been inspected, who gets sued? The electrician, the inspector, or both?

The only problem with any inspection like this is that somebody can still come along afterward and tear into the wiring, leaving it in a dangerous state.

Here in Oregon(U.S.), there is electrical safety law that states that if there is previously installed wiring that isn't "up to code" and wasn't up to the code that was current when it was originally installed, then you can't add on to that circuit. So, when a portion of a circuit is extended by someone who doesn't do it right, and a contractor comes along later and extends it even more, then he is taking on responsibility for the reliability and safety of the previously installed work. So, he has to take time to check out the condition of the previous work, if he wants to stay out of trouble. This is a beginning step towards requiring electricians to responsibly inspect electrical installations, and not rely exclusively on the local inspectors, since a lot of work is performed by people who don't take out permits, and don't get inspections.
I worked on a job where the splices in every switch box and receptacle outlet box that I checked out were not crimped down properly -- the connections were all loose. I told the customer that there was a need for checking out all the splices in the house, and I got chewed out later by my boss for creating the impression that the house was unsafe, and that my comments put the electrical contractor I was working for in a difficult position.
It appears that the laws are trending towards increasing the responsibility of the installing electrician, and yet the real world conditions make it impossible for the electricians to protect themselves. I get the feeling that we all are assuming risks that we don't even know we are assuming.
As Bjarney mentioned, everyone and anyone who is involved in wiring a structure is likely to be sued...especially if they have 'deep pockets'. As Trumpy mentioned, there are contractors signing their lives away, not only in NZ, but also here in some of the States, via self inspections. To "do no wrong" is to have nothing to fear, but only if you have the money and time to press your case in court. No matter how innocent you might be, you still have to protect yourself and avoid dodgy installations like the plague! I guess it all comes down to making sure you have lots of documentation that precisely describes what portion of the wiring you are involved in altering, and a clear listing of materials used as well, signed by the customer. I don't think this will keep me out of court, but I hope it will make my defense strong enough so that I won't get dragged down by lengthy court proceedings.
For those who are not in the US, is there a requirement for upgrading (up to code, or in compliance with standards) any portions of the wiring which relate to what you might be called upon to work on?

Now I would need the input from Kent on the real world, but I know that the code requires anyone working on an installation to take into account the affect on the existing wiring. (This e.g. means that the effect of adding more load to a circuit with only short-circuit protection must be checked)

There is also the general principle of "existing installation" which means that you don't have to upgrade existing wiring that is to old codes, (what you'd call "grandfathered" in the US).

Documentation is conveniently "lost"...

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 03-10-2003).]

"So... If there's a serious accident in Belgium after the wiring has been inspected, who gets sued? The electrician, the inspector, or both? "

The inspector, since the electrician would be covered by the inspection. That's the idea of the inspection. Let me add that the inspection is made by a independant body.

"The only problem with any inspection like this is that somebody can still come along afterward and tear into the wiring, leaving it in a dangerous state."

Then that person would be responsible. That's exactly why that when we have a inspection we need to make a complete plan of the installation. That plan is printed in 3 examples. 1 for the electrician , 1 for the owner, and 1 for the inspection body. All 3 are stamped by the inspector.

Whoa, the only thing that strict here are the construction regs.! All building plans from I don't know when are filed at the Construction police department. We went there and had no problems getting the original plans for our 1913 house (except for having to pay $11 and very expensive copies).
Not even gas lines are checked that much here. A plumber has to install them, when the rough-in is completed he calls the gas company for a first inspection, then you can plaster the holes in the walls. This inspection includes a thorough visual inspection of all pipework and a soundness test (done with quite a weird instrument which looks like a large freestanding bycicle pump with a clear vertical plastic pipe. The pipe is filled with water to nearly overflowing and twice the usual pressure is pumped into the pipework. If the water level drops over five minutes the lines aren't tight) When everything is finished, appliances are connected the gas co. guys come and hook up the meter. About half a year later the final visual inspection comes. This guy check's for example whether you have the required vent cutouts in the bathroom door if a boiler is installed in there (quite a sad feeling to cut holes into old panel doors).
However, there are no plans of the pipework, only a list of which appliances are connected to the supply. Whenever any pipework is added or altered rough-in and final inspection have to be done again.
Plus you have to have a chimney soundness certificate signed by your chimney sweep prior to installing any gas appliances (direct vent into the room or venting to the outside air is prohibited, ALL gas appliances have to be connected to a chimney, not like in Belgium or France where direct-vent 5l boilers are still used, or like the UK where venting through outside walls seems to be quite common)
Sorry for the halfways off-topic post.

Belgian, how long has it been the responsibility of the inspectors to assume the risk for someone else's work?
Do inspectors get paid well in Belgium for such risk taking? Do they have to take personal responsibility? I get the impression that they are independent contractors of some sort...just doing inspections. They must have to inspect and document everything thoroughly!