ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades the 'electricaly safest' country?

Wise words from David. As usual.

>1) Mandatory RCD protection for all general purpose sockets and certain other circuits,
>eg. electric shower, bathroom lighting.

This would make the risk of electrocution and fire very small. Let's just hope the price of RCD:s fall.

>2) Prohibiting the use of rewirable fuses.
>(Most other countries have already done this.)

The rewireable fuse is a joke among people who have been to UK or Australia. It creates an impression that these countries are decades behind in safety. (I don't think it was ever used in the German-influenced countries)

>3) Use of safety BC lampholders that only
>energize the pins when a bulb is inserted.

This would give it a clear advantage over the Edison socket, and the world should adopt this standard.

>4) Change of specification for the general purpose BS6004 twin & earth sheathed cables,
>requiring: Insulated earth (CPC/ground) wire of same cross section as the L&N,
>preferably stranded. Thicker outer sheathing similar to Australian standard TPS cable,
>to provide improved resistance to mechanical damage.

It would be nice with a world wide cable standard per your suggestion. (I think Australia just went the other way, allowing thinner insulation. )

thanks Paul

You're welcome!

I think I've posted this before, but here's a recap on how these new designations work.

First letter: Grounding of the supply.
T = One pole connected to earth.
I = isolated from ground (or grounded thru a high impedance).


Second letter: Protective grounding.
T = Installation grounded to local earth rod.
N = Installation grounded to supply neutral.

Third/fourth letters:
C = Neutral/protective ground combined.
S = Neutral/protective ground separate.

The PME/MEN/American arrangement is TN-C-S because the protective ground is combined with the neutral on the distribution side, but separate once inside the house.

The T for earth is from the French terre.

I see that our Swedish friend has posted a description of the systems on his site as well. Follow the link from this thread.

Paul, thanks for the recap on the systems designations, I find them quite hard to remember, using only the TN-C-S system over here.

I thought it might be an idea to revive a few older threads now that we have some more members.

Anybody have some more thoughts to add on the good and/or bad points about various countries' wiring methods?

All the respective systems seem pretty good in there own way upto the supply fuse. Its what goes on after the meter where it all goes pear shaped, and who do we have to blame for that I wonder! Its already been said on a number of occasions that its all about code enforcement. I dont mean nit picking codes either like a bit of sleeving missing or a cable unsupported in an atic. We see some real horrors on the board hear and all of them are by the invisible man with no name. I think all of us in hear are proud of what we do and leave behind. Its relativly easy to find fault with any job. Perfection is hard to achieve in the commercial world when your trying to earn the $. Yes we do try very hard to achieve it, Its the out and out dangers that we have to protect Jo public from and I suspect that not to many are created by profesional sparkys

Tricky one. I suppose I'm one of the fence-sitters and agree that each country has it's good points - but they ALL depend on the correct application and almost total absence of DIY...

I tend to think that the use of reduced voltages has its merits, but then I look at the reduced safety factors in the related equipment ( plugtops etc..) and wonder... In some respects the 115V systems are good that way, but then they are not universal even in US so it's of only limited advantage.

Having worked around a bit over the years I tend to believe we have a good set up in UK; modern systems at least. And there is money being spent on upgrading utils, which has to be a good thing.

I wouldn't be as bold as to think UK is the best, or to try and suggest any one country for that gold star!

Has anyone worked in Romania???

Yes, it's hard to come down firmly for or against a specific country because there are good and bad points in each (or perhaps good and bad are too string adjectives -- maybe "better" and "not so good" would be more appropriate terms).

I was looking thru some stats a few months ago and the number of people electrocuted by modern European domestic wiring is absolutely miniscule. Wheather it's UK, French, German, Irish, Italian etc as long as it conforms with up-to-date codes it's quite safe.

The UK and Ireland are in a quite unique position. Our old domestic wiring systems being so over-complicated that they were impractical (at least 3 different incompatable plugs etc etc) so they were generally replaced from the 1950s onwards. It's extremely easy to identify an old installation as modern plugs simply don't fit into the sockets. This, by fluke, has eliminated a lot of old installations that would undoubtedly have remained in use had people not been forced, for practical reasons, to change them. It also made people highly aware of the age of their installation. The same is true of Australia and NZ who changed to their blade-pin plug in the 50s.

In the US and most of Europe, old installations will still happily accept modern plugs. This has meant that old, crumbling and often inadequate installations continue to remain in service and people don't even necessarily realise just how old and outdated they are.

I would be in favour of introducing a pan-european connector that was 100% incompatable with any exsisting system. The current round pin plugs/sockets, all of which are ancestors of the old ungrounded VDE (German) standard have one massive flaw:

Old 2-pin VDE, Dutch, Belgian, French etc ungrounded sockets happily accept schuko / french grounded plugs! ! Danish outlets, with their different grounding sollution, have also got this problem even WITH grounded outlets!

[The British, Swiss and Italian systems generally won't accept grounded schuko plugs and it's impossible to insert a 3-pin plug in those systems into an ungrounded outlet.]

Adopting a new system would mean that we could start from the drawing board, come up with something far safer than any of the exsisting systems and that was more suitable for the thousands of small electronic appliences that we all have these days.

(the British sollution's a total disaster for small appliences. you end up with giant power strips under your computer for no good reason.. it's safe but it's not very slick!)

A set of CE / Cenelec approved *SAFE* adaptors could be sold to make old appliences compatable with the new outlets.

Most current adaptors are an absolute disgrace to the electrical industry..!

The likelihood, however, is that grounded schuko will simply become the defacto standard right across Europe and the old non-grounded outlets will just disappear completely.

The ideal time for a change like this would have been in the early 1960s.. it's a BIT late to do much now!


As for the US system.. Something should be done about the bare pinned plugs! I have gotten a couple of little zapps from them! Surely they could be sheathed.


[This message has been edited by djk (edited 07-18-2004).]