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#135540 01/19/03 08:26 AM
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I've never been to Quebec, but I've seen pictures from the province with all the signs saying ARRET, even though English is also an official language there. Yet in France where the only official language is French, the signs say STOP. Go figure! [Linked Image]

I'd be quite happy to drive on the right. The change would give our road planners the chance to sort out the chaotic mess of nonsensical one-way systems that exist in almost every British town at the moment.

On second thought, judging by their past efforts, they'd probably make it worse. [Linked Image]

#135541 01/20/03 06:57 AM
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C-H Offline OP
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Are you saying that the one-way-terrorists have struck in England too? I strongly suspect links to Al-Qaida... Stockholm is a nightmare: I've lived by a street which had one way in, but a dozen ways out. You just go round round trying to find a place to park. Half the traffic in the city would be gone if "they" took the one-way signs down.

#135542 01/20/03 12:35 PM
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Yep, the town planners have been at it here for some years.

Example:
In Great Yarmouth, about 16 miles from me, you arrive at a traffic-light intersection on a one-way street. The cross street is also one-way, running to the left, and making aleft turn there it's only about 200 yards to one of the main roads to head out of town. But there's a "no left turn" sign there, so you instead have to go straight over the lights, right up to middle of the town in amongst the congestion of taxis, buses, etc. then loop around to eventually arrive back at the same intersection where this time you go straight across. It adds about 3/4 mile through the most congested part of the town. [Linked Image]

#135543 01/22/03 07:18 AM
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C-H Offline OP
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I forgot the important part: The electrical system. To the best of my knowledge all of the new countries use 230/400V @ 50Hz. (Cyprus could still be on 240V, they didn't reply)

Two of the countries use the British 13A plug: Cyprus and Malta. (Although the plug(s) used in the Turkish community on Cyprus is an open question)

Estonia and Latvia probably use the Schuko. (Strong Swedish and Finnish influence in Estonia) Lithuania uses the Shucko or the French socket. Poland the French (this is the Gost standard), ditto for Czechia and Slovakia. Hungary and Slovenia both use the Schuko.

Possible future members Norway, Iceland, Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey all seem to have adopted the the Schuko as standard.

It would thus seem that a common European plug is becoming less and less likely. It would have been easier twentyfive years ago when every member state had its own plug.

#135544 04/12/04 12:41 PM
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C-H Offline OP
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I picked up this old thread again to add something entirely off topic. The Eurocrats at Eurostat have collected every possible figure about the old and new member states and compared with the US. If you ever wondered how many people marry each year in Cyprus or how much cereals the Maltese consume, this is a link for you: [Linked Image]
http://europa.eu.int/comm/eurostat/...ct=1-11032004-EN-AP-EN&mode=download

What is interesting is that the trade between the former communist countries and the former Soviet Union is almost gone. Even the old Soviet republics of Estonia and Latvia have some 75% of their trade with the EU. This has had an impact on wiring practices and electrical equipment. Any influence the Soviet standards retain will be eliminated by CE-marking, voltage harmonisation and the common market. Boring but safer.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 04-12-2004).]

#135545 04/13/04 06:13 AM
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When I see pages of official statistics, I can't help recalling an episode of Yes Prime Minister where the conversation went something like this:

Jim Hacker: But Humphrey, is it really that important that every council return these analysis forms?

Sir Humphrey: But of course, Prime Minister. How else will central government have the data for compiling essential statistics?

Jim Hacker: But everyone know that government statistics are nonsense anyway.

Sir Humphrey: But the data will be incomplete Prime Minister. We want to make sure that the statistics are a complete nonsense!

[Linked Image]

#135546 04/13/04 08:41 AM
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djk Offline
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I would suspect that Cyprus and Malta, like Northern Ireland, may have used 230V for quite some time as they're small countries and are hardly going to import appliences from the UK. I bet that the majority of appliences arrive in Cyprus and Malta with schuko plugs fitted which are cut off and replaced.

230V/400V is just a nominal voltage. It was a fairly sensible regulatory sollution to a technical problem.

Isn't there some varience in the USA / Canada line voltages too?

I've seen them written as anything from 110 - 125V 60hz.

some old American equipment seems to be rated 100V (Same as modern-day Japan) which would indicate to me that line voltages have increased.

#135547 04/13/04 08:57 AM
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djk Offline
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On the use of abreviations:

EU - European Union
formerly : EC - European Community
formerly : EEC - European Economic Community.

The name-changes coincide with drastic changes in what the bloc is. The EEC was a purely economic trading bloc, the European Community took things a stage further bringing in more political union and the European Union brings some aspects of federal government to Europe.

the EC and EEC no longer exsist and anyone using "made in the EEC" is just mistranslating or is hopelessly out of date.

EC tends to mean European Commission these days which is one of the organs of Government within the EU.

There is also the EEA, European Economic Area, which is nothing to do with the EU per-se but is a kinda looser co-operating group of countries that includes all of the EU members, Switzerland, Iceland and Norway etc..

and of course the Council of Europe, an entirely seperate organisation which has 45 member states. It was established in 1949 as a direct reaction to WW II and primarily acts as a human rights watchdog and has policies like no member can have a death penalty etc.. It's more like the UN then the EU as it's a relatively loose international organisation.

Aims
The Council was set up to:
• defend human rights, parliamentary democracy and the rule of law,
• develop continent-wide agreements to standardise member countries' social and legal practices,
• promote awareness of a European identity based on shared values and cutting across different cultures

#135548 04/13/04 12:24 PM
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I am rathur sure there is no nominal difference between the voltage at Canadian and US outlets.

What you may be thinking of is that they've upped the standards over the years from 110 to 125.

#135549 04/13/04 01:09 PM
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C-H Offline OP
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In fact the EEA is the agreement between Geneva-based European Free Trade Association (EFTA) and Brussels-based European Union. The EEA agreement came about to facilitate trade between the two competing organisations. Today, most of the members of EFTA have left to become members of the EU instead. The only countries to remain are Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein. Switzerland opted out of EEA and Greenland left the EU in the early 80's but both have their own trade agreements with the EU.

PS. Technically, the EC still exists as one of the pillars the EU is based on. The name is still used in "The Court of Justice of the European Communities". This to mark that its powers are limited to the EC pillar. For example you can't take a criminal case there, nor a human rights case.

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