ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades A world standard plug system???

Why can't the UK & Ireland (and possibily malta and cyprus) change to Schuko?

I can't see why a special schuko outlet couldn't be produced for ring mains systems. All you'd have to do is to include 13 amp fusing on the sockets. BSI could insist that those were the only type of sockets usable in retrofits in the uk and thus preserve the ring circuit.

All appliences sold in the UK have harmonised european cabling on them for a LONG time and are quite safe to use on standard 16 amp schuko plug/socket systems.

A sollution like that would mean that fused plugs would be eliminated completely and the systems would be just as safe as they always have been.

I can't see a fusing problem as the fuse would be fixed in the socket on the live/hot side so if it overloads the live cuts out, just as it does in a 13 amp plug, regardless of which way the schuko plug is inserted.

Fusing schuko plugs would be pretty tricky as you'd have a 50:50 chance of the fuse being on the neutral and it would be impossible to prevent non-fused european schuko/europlug appliences from getting in to the UK/Ireland.

British wall plates are big enough to encorporate switches and lights along side the sockets so i don't see why a fuse, just like in a fused spur plate, couldn't be included on a new BS schuko outlet.

They could also insist on shuttering being used in the British / Irish outlets.

As it is at the moment most appliences arn't properly fused anyway. I can't see the point of the 5amp/3amp fuses as usually when one blows people replace them with 13amp as they're much easier to find. Europlugs are regularlly jammed into UK sockets and are sitting on 32/35amp rings with no fuse protection at all. I wonder what fire risk they pose?

BS 1362 fuses could continue to be used in these sockets too so you'd have lots of spares available from day one.

Companies like MK etc would still have the same share of the market too as the UK/Ireland socket outlets would still have to be manufactured with fuses and to fit UK wall plate standards. They would no doubt continue to make money from rewirable plugs too as their distribution channels are so well established. I'm sure that market is deminishing anyway since all appliences now ship with moulded-on plugs.

As for looks, if you look at MKs website they already make a schuko recessed fitting in various colours (including brass etc) designed to fit a normal double UK style wall plate and they look quite good from an asthetic point of view.

As for adaptors, you simply ship the appliences with european plugs and use those "fixed on" adaptors, which seems to be the case with an increasing number of appliences anyway.

Europlug:


Schuko: Grounded


Schuko: Non Grounded


After XX years the BS1363 would go the same way that the older systems went, it would actually be a much smoother change-over thanks to those adaptors.

Here are the MK Schuko double plates to UK box standards by the look of them:



(c) MK Electric



(c) MK Electric
http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/

If fuses were added they should work perfectly within a UK ring mains system.

Cool idea. I'm a fan of Schuko receptacles as the plugs are basically as solid as BS 1363 ones but not that bulky (you'll hardly ever have a real Schuko plug fall out of the wall), they're recessed and don't need sleeved pins, and last but not least they're already in use in a majority of European countries as well as some overseas countries.
And I grew up with them.
I think that for example Italy will eventually change to Schuko plugs considering the amount of Schuko plugs that are already in use (Tons of adaptors, DIN rail panel mount sockets are only Schuko type, most power strips take Schuko plugs as well as Italian ones and there are Schuko and combo receptacles available that fit Italian boxes.
When I stayed with an Italian family for some time I found the following items powered with Schuko plugs and adaptors: coffee maker, washing machine, computer, refrigerator, desk lamp, maybe more stuff I didn't see).

You do see the occasional europlug here, anything with a schuko plug generally gets it cut off and a BS1363 plug fitted. For whatever reason appliences shipped without fitted plugs in the UK for many years until an EU directive was passed so people are very used to fitting plugs and wouldn't think twice about cutting a 2-pin schuko plug off and fitting a "proper one". I noticed that italians are more reluctant to do that and rewirable plugs arn't as easily available.

I wouldn't advocate changing the BS1363 system for any technical reasons. It's a perfectly good standard, works well and causes no problems. It's just it is a little out of sync with the rest of Europe and is just another annoying little difference that doesn't really need to be there.

Also having people by-pass its plug-top fuses by wedging europlugs into outlets is far from safe and happens regularly in Ireland anyway. Thankfully most of the sockets are slightly too tight to accept a 16 amp schuko plug, the pins are too fat to go in so at least we don't have the danish and italian problem of appliences not being earthed but working perfectly.

Also since Ireland used/uses 220V it tended to get european versions of appliences shipped with 220V ratings and European plugs. Also since we've joined the Euro it makes a lot more sense to source electrical equipment from distribution centres within the Eurozone as you avoid sterling-euro conversions so once again many appliences are shipping with european plugs. This usually applies to stuff that is relatively cheap and doesn't have to be localised (i.e. doesn't have to be printed up in English). It would be rare to get a washing machine shipped with a schuko plug for example because of the need to have the front panel in English. TVs, VCRs, small appliences etc often do however. Many stores just throw one of those european converter plugs into the box!

That's an interesting idea about the U.K. adopting Schuko receptacles but including a fuse at each outlet to enable the ring circuit to be retained. It would certainly enable a changeover to be made without the need for complete rewires.

I wonder though, whether after a short time there might not be a call for the U.K. to switch to Schuko outlets on 16A radial circuits, Continental style. If that did happen, then there would be no point in using fused receptacles on those new circuits, so we'd have both fused and unfused Schukos being sold. And when Joe Klutz decides to convert his own home, you can bet which type he would use to replace his existing BS1363 typoes, can't you? The unfused types are bound to be cheaper, after all.

That aside, the biggest hurdle to overcome would be to get the IEE and other British Standards bodies to accept the Schuko receptacle. Even though for most appliances polarity doesn't really matter, they are still totally opposed to non-polarized connectors.

I really can't see why the ring system would be abandoned. If the outlets are fused there is no longer any risk of anyone connecting directly to a circuit protected only by 30-35amp fuse/mcbs. The major problem with BS1363 on ring circuits is that the fusing is in control of the end user. If he/she just pops a europlug in bypassing the shuttering etc there is a serious fire risk.

If there were 16amp unfused outlets made available the simple sollution is to make them with a different wall box that doesn't fit into the normal British wall box that would prevent joe clutz from just swapping the face plates and by-passing the fusing.

I honestly can't see why BSI couldn't just inforce a BS number for fused schuko sockets though. I mean what's to prevent Joe or Jane Clutz from fitting BS546 sockets to a ring main? or buying a few sockets in France of Spain while on holiday and popping them in as it is? Hardware stores won't stock non-approved gear and are subject to prosecution if they do anyway.

What would the feasability of using 16amp fuses in the sockets be? It would bring them into line with EU norms and presumably the ring main itself would be protected by its own 30-35amp fuse so it couldn't overload, 13amp was only decided upon for local cable protection reasons in the 1940s. There are plenty of 10amp outlets around Europe though, so UK 13 amp wouldn't be that weird. They could even come up with a neater cartridge fuse for the job.

The configuration, here at least, for 16amp industrial sockets is to either wire them on a radial 16 amp circuit or to wire them to a ring with local 16amp fusing before each outlet so it's not like it's anyting radically different.

also if they were fused at 16 amps you could just outright ban all but the fused versions, it would not make any difference wheather you wired on 32amp rings or 16amp radials you could use 16amp fused sockets.

On the polarisation issue:

IEE accepts "figure of 8" connectors for countless small appliences that are reversable. Those conversion plugs are also now acceptable and there is no way of ensuring which way the schuko / europlug is connected inside.

Good point about the non-polarized connectors already in use. I imagine the IEE would say that they are used on specific items of equipment, whereas the wall receptacle is a general-purpose outlet which may be used for almost any appliance.

On the possibility of fused Schuko outlets, they couod be designed to take a 15A fuse to BS1361. They're the standard cartridge fuses used in distibution panels in the U.K.

Apologies DJK, but I have to add my 2 cents worth.

What benefit to UK consumers is there in changing to schuko sockets?
Will the system be safer than BS1363?

I don't see any benefit to UK consumers, other than the fact you would not need to pack an adapter when going on holiday to Europe.
I don't believe that schuko is any safer than BS1363, with it's switched, shuttered, polarized sockets & sleeved pin plugs.

Any benefit would be to appliance manufacturers only.
The consumer would be faced with the prospect of replacing all their plugs & sockets once again, when it is only relatively recently that BS 546 was phased out.

The problem you describe with Europlugs in Ireland doesn't exist in mainland UK. Appliances are fitted with 13A plugs, except for shavers & electric toothbrushes which have BS4573 2 pin plugs.
Schuko sockets would probably be far more acceptable to Irish consumers due to your history of using the system & 220V supply, but I am certain that Brits would resist any change to the system, fused or not.

I am not by any means opposed to changing from our BS1363 system, but as I stated earlier in this thread, it would need to be a completely new system adopted by all industrialized countries. Also any new system would need to be safer than existing systems, & not dangerously interchangable.