ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Doing wiring in other countries

I've seen even more extreme instructions than that in Ireland:

something along the lines of :

"If the plug does not fit the sockets in your home cut it off, remove the fuse from the carrier and dispose of it carefully. It could be very dangerous if it were to be inserted into a compatable socket elsewhere (Risk of electric shock). Then fit an appropriate plug of an approved type."

Is there anywhere to read a bit about French wiring practices, (in english!)? I'm getting involved in a property renovation, and whilst I've no intention of doing the wiring myself it would be nice to know what to expect from the tradesman, and know what to request, etc

Welcome to ECN!

There is some information from Legrand that has been posted here previously:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000103.html

You're not the first to ask:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000057.html

There has been some talk of the Belgian system, which is very similar to the French. There is some information about this in the following thread.
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000078.html

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 12-30-2002).]

Texas-Ranger
"What do you think about using Standard NEMA devices @230V? (Mostly receptacles, could use 277V switches)."

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I think it's confusing for people who are not familiar with the intricacies of that particular country's electrical system (people who see an American outlet and think it will be 110 volts so they plug in their radio or computer before checking the voltage and blow it up), but American 1-15 and 5-15 receptacles can work on 220 volts with no problem.

One country I know that uses these is Peru. Voltage is 220 and round-pin European plugs co-exist with flat-pin American plugs.

Years ago, I bought an old 1960s Philips radio from a guy in Peru and it came with an old American-style after-market rubber plug dangling from the cord and the radio was set for 220.

I have a bunch of more modern radios and other devices that are 110/220 volt switchable and come equipped with either SPT-1 AWG-18 cord or .75mm double-insulated cord with parallel-blade plugs.

As far as switches go, I am looking at a standard American wall switch (single pole) made by Leviton. It is rated 10-amp 125 volts/5 amps 250 volts.

I have another one here rated 15 amps/125 volts (but no mention of rating for 250 - although I assume it will be half of the amperage at 125, so 7.5amps/250 volts?) .

Maybe one of these days I'll wire up one of these switches to my 220 volt transformer and see if anything happens...although I think that if I keep within the ratings, they will be fine.

Thx Sven. Yes, it would be confusing, but not that much, as you stated countries like Peru (or Thailand) use this type of equipment with 220V, 50HZ (I was pretty surprised when I got to a flea market held by some guys at the Thai embassy, saw some piece of equipment with a NEMA 1-15 plug and this lady just plugged it into an adaptor. I just expected smoke to rise... Then I saw the amplifier was rated 240V/50HZ.)
I don't think smoke will raise immediately after you hook up US equipment to 220. I have succesfully used a table lamp with Leviton thumbweel switch and metal lamp socket @220V, I rather thought about long-term insulation failure or similar.
Anyway, was just an idea. So far I don't see any chance how to get all the stuff from the US (mail order would be a little expensive), so I'll stick to our own devices. My new room will be retrofitted with 1960ies toggle switches and the typical mix of ungrounded and some Schuko receptacles (very common at that time, especially for rewires).

Hmm.... I wonder exactly how anyone would go about enforcing such a rule? And I'm sure that everyone in Austria abides by this regulation, don't they?

Similar warnings have started appearing in the U.K. in recent years as well, especially since molded-on plugs started to become more common on new appliances.

My half-brother has a small toaster oven that brought in the Philippines. It's a 230V version and came with a standard molded NEMA 1-15 plug and SPT cord. I understand that 1-15 plugs/receptacles are common there on their 220V services.

I'm curious as to wheather the ESB (Ireland's main power company)'s normal domestic single phase supply is similar to the UK, Europe and elsewhere?

12kVA and 16kVA seem to be the standard

Connected as follows: (ESB Supplied)

line > fuse > meter > double pole isolating switch

(Customer Supplied)

Distribution Board
Main switch, main breaker / diazed fuse, RCD & fuses (Diazed/Neozed) or MCBs (the norm these days)

Almost always a Siemens or Hager board of MCBs

Not even law-fixated Germans stick to the plug code. But if you stick to code, the only thing you're allowed is to change light bulbs and replace fuses. Opening a cover exposing live terminals is already a crime. (though impossible to prove, many people rewire their complete house without any license).
OK, Austrian distribution. Big transformer station in each of Vienna's 23 districts, small transformers along the streets. 230/400 line to house>main fuse (PoCo, in this case Wienstrom, located in a box to which only electricians have a key, with overhead service located on the last pole, here the neutral is bonded)>line to house (if main fuse is located on pole or at the front fence)>fuses, to be operated by customer>distribution inside the house> Diazed/neozed fuses ahead of each meter (in case of appartment building)>meter>RCD>panel of fuses (Diazed) or MCBs, fuses typically 6 to 16A, MCB 10 to 16A, although 4A Diazed fuses may still be found. All single phase circuits usually both hot and neutral fused (I guess this comes from the fact that DC distribution was still widely used here until 1965, followed by a 127/220 3ph system w/o neutral, which needed to have both poles protected), so still double-pole breakers are the norm. Common brands are F&G (Made in Austria), Hager, sometimes Siemens. Have also seen brands like Neptun 2000 and similar. F&G is by far the most common.
I think 3/4 of the houses in Vienna are pre-WWI, and many many of them still have much of the original wiring left. (no RCD, 1 or 2 6A circuits for a 100m2 appartment, no ground or maybe some added kitchen receptacles grounded to the next water line, 1mm2 cloth covered wires either in conduit or buried directly in plaster/laying loosely betwetween the joists of plaster and lathe ceilings (which have large amounts of straw nailed to the lathes), tinned copper. Many of these overfused up to 16A (or 20+ if somebody bypassed the fuse with copper wire or like), most of these systems with the worst extensions ever (zip cord in plaster, buried splices, strip connectors in plaster, not even taped, wrong color coding (I actually had a cable with a yellow-green phase, a black neutral and a blue ground, fed by some 0.75 mm2 zip cord, feeding a kitchen receptacle), wires running in perfect circles inside the walls (wanted to relocate a switch because it was way too high up. wires went halfway down from old switch to new desired location, were spliced and went up again to the junction box.), everything). It's a miracle we have such a low electrical fire rate (I don't know exact figures, but I was told the number is much smaller than in the US)

DJK,
The standard single-phase supply for new residential services in the U.K. is now 100A (24kVA). There are still a lot of 60 and 80A services in use though, and a few 40A. Very occasionally, I even come across an old 30A supply.

For the metering/distribution arrangements, you might like to look back at these threads:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000049.html
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000050.html

In this area I'd say that until recently MEM and Wylex were the most common brand of distribution panels. Newer MCB boards include MK, Crabtree, Hager, and GE.

Tex,

In my opinion, this is quite unacceptable. I agree that there are some people who are so stupid/ignorant about electricity that they should never be let near a screwdriver, but to make it illegal to even remove a cover in one's own home is really going too far. And as you say, it's a ridiculous law because it's just about impossible to enforce anyway.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-02-2003).]