ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades New RCD Requirement?

The split-load boards have become common in the U.K. in recent years as well.

I've replaced a lot of old boards in this area, usually because people want extra circuits added and the original panel is already overcrowded with no spare ways.

The problem of short tails on the existing cables is a familiar one. It turns a two-hour job into an all-day job.

Paul, like yourself, I do not like the way that this new legislation is heading.
I certainly agree with the protection of Domestic People by RCD's.
One thing that you must realise, is the fact of the new Politically-Correct way, to effect Electrical Safety over here is to just put an RCD on it, A feel-good factor.
This legislation is Law, as of 01-01-2003,
and through the Certificate Of Compliance system, they are only going to punish the people who use this system.
Old Appy, what are your views on this subject,will it affect your quoting,
how do you feel about being under-cut by contractors that would not use RCD's, even though NZS3000:2002, or do not use CoC's
Does it annoy, you as much as what it does me?.

I think there will always be people that want a good job done cheap thats true for all trades not only sparkys, no matter what rules and regulations there are people will take short cuts to get the work at any cost.
I loose no sleep over missing out on that work. There was a time not so long ago people took pride in the work they did, now it seems we just have to get in get it done and on to the next mess to fix.
Progress uh?
CW

[This message has been edited by old Appy (edited 12-02-2002).]

Craig,
Thanks for your reply, on this subject.
But on the same token, why have they not told (or advertised in any of the weeklies
or what have you), the general public about this whole thing???.
We will be the ones who will be screamed at for adding these extra devices, switchboard regardless, I have seen nothing from the authorities, as per usual!.

It also seems that this is the credo in England too. I see too many ads and "Home Depot" style display boards which in my opinion can easily give the layman the impression that using an RCD will prevent every possible electrical problem that may befall you.

I'm fed up with explaining the reality to people who have bought plug-in 30mA RCDs in the belief that they can no longer get an electric shock.

Sure, the device is an execellent safety aid and is to be recommended, but it cannot, and will not, provide complete protection against electrocution.

Paul,
Homeowners are not allowed to install these devices to the s/board over here, this must be done by a qualified Electrician.
But, in effect, what the authorities have done with this new piece of legislation, is to drive all legitimate Homeowners work, under-ground, who is going to get a sparkie
to install an RCD on thier new circuit, when
they can hook it up (minus RCD), for nothing?.
Also Paul, how many homeowners realise, that an RCD is required to be backed up by an MCB?, as a single RCD is a lot cheaper than an RCCBO.

As far as I know in Austria only completely new bathroom circuits have to be RCD protected. New installations have to be protected by a whole-house GFI (or at least it is done this way since the early 1970ies). if I got our sparky right, until 1998 ETV even the US method of having Schuko receptacles w/o ground on a GFI was legal here. The new ETV brought a lot of new regs, for example it requires services to be large enough for heating the entire served area electrically. Conspiration theory: Just in case the russians turn our gas off!
So our new 100 m2 appartment feeder is 6mm2 (I believe) single phase, but the entire house (8 appartments) has just a 60A 3ph service! So our service is still fused with 2 20A Diazed II fuses. The sparky who hooked up the new meter feeder we had installed (3x6 mm2 stranded single wires in 40mm FX, about 5m run) got shocked several times when hooking up the wires to the fuses. Bright guy! Plus he worked from morning till noon for putting the meter into the prepared enclosure and hooking up these 3 wires!
After seeing the bill I was glad I'd done all the other wiring!
I had some nice experiences with the same company some years ago.
Journeyman #1 just twisted some wires together and now tapes them. Journeyman #2 shows up: Hey, you can't do that! It's illegal! Journeyman #1: Why? It was like that when I opened the box!

Well, homeowners can do this here if they so wish (although at least most recognize that this might be beyond their abilities).

But what I had in mind in this case was the RCD-plugs which are now often fitted on extension reels, typically promoted as a wonderful safety device for using power tools outdoors.

My point is that they certainly offer extra protection but are far from eliminating the dangers completely. Shocks to ground might be the most likely, but no RCD is going to help somebody across line and neutral. (And a reminder to our American friends that we're talking about 30mA GFIs here, not 6mA types.)

T-R,
A 1000+ sq. ft. home with only a 6mm 1-ph feeder. That would be practically unthinkable here.

For those of you who can't visualize what size cable we're talking about, 6 sq. mm is only slightly (about 13%) larger than a #10 AWG.




[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-06-2002).]

Sorry guys, it was 10 mm2. 6mm2 is the current minimum, but the sparky advised us to pull 10 mm2 because there will probably come new requirements. We also sized the conduit large enough to be able to run 3 ph in the future.
The original one (1914) was 4mm2, fused at 20A, no ground, cloth covered wires. At some point spliced to PVC sheathed wires, ground ended at that pint just hanging in mid-air inside the j-box. Now we have a sophisticated upt-to-code feeder and still can't pull more than 20A! (Breakers are 2x 16A dedicated for dishwasher/laundry and 2x 13 for general purpose, i.e lighting and outlets, one 13A for computers, main RCD. So except for the laundry/dishwasher/computer circuits it's the same as the 2 old 10A Diazed fused circuits, only the load distribution is better because on the old system 3/4 of the rooms were on one circuit.)

This whole thing, I can see, is going to get
really silly, over here, just wait for the screaming matches between customers and Electricians(who have to certify thier own work).
This is going to be so unfair!.