ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades 400V - scary or not?

Ehh? Now you've lost me! Are you refering to wiring each breaker with wire as opposed to using a busbar? Here, insulated 3-phase busbars are the norm. I was surprised to see your uninsulated single-phase bar in the "Who needs circuit breakers anyway"-thread. They come in different types: "fork", which you seem to be using, and "pin" which has - surprise! - "pins" instead of "forks". (Different brands, different MCB:s) But it's not part of the panel itself. It's something you put in the box, just like the MCB:s and RCD:s.

I'm a bit lost here since I'm not electrician, and try to keep out of panels as I will probably do more harm than good. Unless I'm sure that I'm doing things right, I call a professional. (It's both safer and legal)



[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-27-2002).]

Before Din-rails were invented all our panels were custom-made. They were usually surface-mount or steel boxes without a back and threads to mount rails on. There were metal (now plastic) rails the Diazed elemnts and other stuff were mounted, and with a surface-mount assembly you could cut these rails just as long as you wanted to. They're stiil on sale, because metal ones have to be replaced when any work is done. The diazed elements were linked with flat brass straps with holes that fit under the screws of the element.
Din-rail panels are a plastic box with one or more rails, neutral and ground bus bar in it. (Neutral commonly unused, as 2 pole breakers are used) Insulated fork bus bars are available, but the norm are short wire links from load side of main GFI (on the rail as well) and the breakers.
4 pole GFIs cost 4 euro less than 2 pole ones (no joke). Each and every service here is 3ph, just sometimes 2 of the phases are terminated at the main fuses or all 3 taken to the meter.

C-H,
The primary reason is that 3 phase equipment is typically better quality (re: more rugged, built with higher AIC raitings, etc) than residential grade eqpt. Though in recent years, our commercial/industrial stuff has been arriving from Mexico, Puerto Rico, etc and the quality has suffered.

A lot of residential stuff is now sold though mass merchandisers like Home Depot and Lowes, which have pushed the prices (and quality) down even further.

A few examples:
Square D "Homeline" 20 amp SP breaker $3.50
Square D 277 volt 20 amp SP breaker $57.00

These are wholesale prices off the top of my head.

I can dig up my catalogs to find out more if you like.

Paul,
Or I can just convince the poco to run a few more high voltage legs and transformers down my street! I'm sure they will....

$3.50 is what you pay here for the Chinese breakers. Don't know anything about the quality and I'm not sure I want to know...

$6 for a single pole, $11 for double pole austrian made F&G breaker (only type they sell at Baumax), $42 for a 4pole main GFI, $45 for double pole (same manufacturer).
These are known as high quality stuff (ours have lasted for 25 years now and still work perfectly, some newer, cheaper ones failed after 2 years, wouldn't properly reset, just because it has been turned on and off manually a few times.)

That $3.50 breaker is assembled in Mexico.

<threadjack>
I avoid any electrical product "Made in China" like the plauge. Chinese made crap seems to be flooding the market these days, and I don't like it a bit. In fact, I just threw away a bag of Chinese made wirenuts that were knockoffs of our Ideal brand that I got for free to try out.
Well, they were junk and nowhere near as good as Ideal.

What did you expect?

But, in all fairness, I have to admit that the Chinese-made extension cords I've seen were just as good as the European ones, with shutters and all.

>But, in all fairness, I have to admit that the Chinese-made extension cords I've seen were just as good as the European ones, with shutters and all.
The only difference is that the chinese sutters break or get blocked after inserting 3 times a plug in it. I've seen a huge difference in quality.

I just noticed what Belgian wrote:

>The exception being rangers which can also be wired as 400V.

You better look out Ranger, or Belgian will wire you to 400V!

Help! And I don't even like being wired up to 230! Think I gotta watch out if I ever meet him! Or at least hope this meeting takes place in a 120V country, or even Japan.

I just saw a 25m extension cord made in Romania (10 Euro). It's pretty nice stuff (very flexible rubber-like sheathing, unbreakable cord caps), but the ratings are a bit strange. The tag shows 1 mm2 wires (which seems to be true) and a max. current of 16A.
Hmmmm.