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Belgian: When did you stop installing ungrounded sockets in Belgium?

Belgian and Ranger:
What do you do if you have to replace a broken ungrounded socket? Are ungrounded sockets available as replacements or do you simply put a grounded socket without ground wire?

The IEC309/CEE17 range are also recognized and used in the U.K., where we also know them under the designation BS4343.

As in most of Europe, the blue 2P+E (2-pole & earth) and red 4P+E are the most common, although the yellow 2P+E types are also used here on building sites where Health & Safety Regulations require portable tools to be 110V types. The low-voltage white and violet types are also found in some industrial locations.

The blue types for 1-ph 240V are almost universal now for RV and campsite hook-ups, in contrast with some parts of the Continent where Schuko or French-style outlets are common.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-23-2002).]

We still use Ring circuits here, albeit for use in Caravan Parks, over large areas like we have here, the circuit is run in either
4mm Single Phase or 2.5mm2 Three Phase, spread equally over the number of points on the circuit.
These Ring circuits are fed via a Selective type RCD(100mA), with 30mA Personal protection RCD's at each Trailer Park point.
Standard over here is the use of CEE 17(Blue), for connection of Caravans.
All of the wiring is run in Neutral-Screened
cable, buried direct.
Also, the minimum length for a Caravan lead is 10 metres, with no joins.

There are 2 options for replacing a broken ungrounded socket: Pull a ground wire from the panel, along the baseboard and convert to Schuko, or find an old ungrounded receptacle you've taken out somewhere else before, install it and have the customer sign a paper stating you just replaced an existing outlet and didn't install anything new. Until 1998 it was also legal to put in a main GFI and use Schuko receptacles without ground, but this has been outlawed in this major code change.

In France you can still get two-pin ungrounded receptacles. I guess they're for replacement-use only, just like the American ones.

I saw them for sale at Castorama's website (which is owned by the same company as the British B&Q). This is sort of like Home Depot or Lowe's type stores here in the USA.

Ranger, if I lived in Austria and was working as your asisstant I could always volunteer to go to France and pick some up...hehehehehe.

Here is the link to one of these things at Castorama's website:
http://www.castorama.fr/boutique/sku/sku.jhtml?elementId=Casto832752&productId=CastoEL0301

Thanks Sven!

Castorama also has something else that I have been thinking of asking about, namely single width, double pole circuit breakers.

Look e.g. at this:
http://www.castorama.fr/boutique/sku/sku.jhtml?elementId=Casto824440&productId=CastoEL0205

Does anybody know if these work with busbars? Or if they exist in a 4 pole version?

Wow! Gotta get some of these receptacles if I ever come to France!
Pitifully our School trip scheduled last year was cancelled because of a teacher's strike.
They're the only 16A rated ungrounded receptacles I've ever seen! Our old ones were all 6 or 10A.

Ha!Our ungrounded plugs and sockets are rated 16A.

> Belgian: When did you stop installing ungrounded sockets in Belgium?
I think it was in 1981 when there were major changes done in our code. Our code is called A.R.E.I. It stands for Algemeen Reglementatie van Electrische Installaties.

What do you do if you have to replace a broken ungrounded socket? Are ungrounded sockets available as replacements or do you simply put a grounded socket without ground wire?
Our code says that you are aloud to use and repair ungrounded sockets from older installations and therefore we can still buy them. It is also written thet it's a breach of the code if you replace a old ungrounded socket with a grounded one without pulling a ground wire.


>Castorama also has something else that I have been thinking of asking about, namely single width, double pole circuit breakers....Does anybody know if these work with busbars? Or if they exist in a 4 pole version?

They are made by Legrand. We use them here when we need to add breakers in a "box" and there's no more space. Otherwise I don't find them good to work with, since the screws are very small and therefore can cause loose contacts.
There are special busbars for these models.
You mean single width 4 pole? No, it doesn't exist yet.


[This message has been edited by Belgian (edited 10-24-2002).]

That means you were way head of us. BTW. The title sounds like Flemish?


Same as here, then. What do you do if you add an extra socket in a room with old ungrounded cables?


Ah. It seemed like the only type Castorama had. I can imagine that they are not as good as ordinary breakers.

>There are special busbars for these models.

They must be pretty small?

>You mean single width 4 pole? No, it doesn't exist yet.

Single width 4 pole? Now, that'll be something! I meant double width 4 pole, but expressed myself poorly. (I doubt anyone could figure out what I meant...)

BTW. The socket you have in your post looks like it has a recessed engagement face? I'm I right? (Ours look just the same!)

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 10-24-2002).]