ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Anyone interested in Austrian systems?

112 has been in operation here for a couple of years now, though few people know about it. BT announced that they have no plans to withdraw our traditional 999 emergency number (in use since the 1930s) for the forseeable future.

In pre-STD days people just dialed 0 for the operator, but that was changed to 100 to allow 0 as the long-distance prefix.
There are other operator codes as well, such as 151 for fault reports, 150 for customer service and so on.

The London codes changed in 1990 as they split the old 01 area into 071 (inner) and 081 (outer). Then a few years later all normal STD codes were changed to add a 1 into them, so they became 0171 and 0181 (and the code here - 0692 - changed to 01692). Then most recently they decided to make London numbers up to 8 digits and put them all back into one area with the code 020. Business people in the capital have not been happy with the trouble and expense for new signs etc. every time.

Many other codes (e.g. 0800, 0645, 0336, 0839) had been added haphazardly for toll-free, special rate, mobile phones, pagers, etc. so they're now trying to re-organize the codes to make them more consistent.

The first digits of a local number used to tell you the district within the STD area code, but that can't be relied upon anymore due to number "portability" and all the alternative carriers that have started appearing.

To be blunt, in the last 10 to 15 years our telephone network has become an absolute mess.

It's interesting that you have to pay extra for a "secret" number. An unlisted number (called "ex-directory") is available upon request here at no charge. These days it's also possible to have a sort of intermediate status where your number isn't listed in the book but can be obtained via directory assistance (called "directory enquiries" - dial 192).

If you're interested in the "good old days," you might like this:

www.light-straw.co.uk/ate

A little late for those of us on this side of the big pond, but Happy New Year!

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-31-2001).]

I found out some additional stuff. Some unlisted numbers can be obtained via directory enquiries (118 200 for numbers in Austria and Germany, 118 202 for the rest of the world), some not. No idea why.
The operator service for manually connected long-distance calls is still in service, it has only changed from 09 to 118 16.

Back to standard electric.
I was sometimes really surprised abvout the small number of different receptacle/switch styles in the US. Here in Austria you have a wide range of differently styled fixtures, which only thing in common is that you can put in the same plugs. For example you would never be able to combine a Legrand wallplate with a Kopp receptacle, as you can do with a Mulberry and a Leviton one.
Some common wiring pratice:
Any horizontal wiring has to be within I think about 1' from the ceiling or floor, most commonly rhe ceiling, so there's less "chain wiring" as seen in the US. This rule tells you where not to drill holes, and it exists to reduce the risk of drilling holes into wires. Diagonal wiring is completely forbidden. So most wires are horizontally beneath the ceiling with a junction box above most of the switches/receps. Or we use one j-box between two or more fixtures and pull l-shaped lines down.
In older buildings these rules are not necessarily obeyed. Some electricians must really have loved diagonal wiring, wires running in circles, ...
Very common is also the "T'nT" splice. Before the chocolate block type connectors came up wires were twisted and taped together, then usually put in plaster or in one of those wooden frame junction boxes. Those block connectors were also sometimes put in plaster. Even without tape...
Love to scratch the plaster out of the screws!
Nice example for often repaired and extended work here: We have 7 j-boxes, 4 receptacles (2 ungrounded) , one wall light and one ceiling fixture with simple on-off switch, all that in 3 rooms. The wires start in the biggest room in a j-box. 4 cloth and rubber covered wires in plaster, not really in code but nothing unusal about. the second j-box is where the wires would normally go. They don't show up. Then there's the first receptacle. It has 2 plastic covered wires in plaster coming in ( and a later added ground). The second receptacle in this room is fed by 2 very thin ( 0,75 sq mm) plastic covered wires running beneath the ceiling through a 3rd j-box above the door to the second room where the wires to the 2nd room's light fixture should go. Now about the second room: there's a j-box (#4) directly next to the switch and receptacle # 3. Here we have 1 cloth and one plastic covered wire, coming from diagonally downwards, obviously from receptacle #2, what can't be true as the box there only contains 2 wires. No ground any more. j-box #4 has also 1 Romex leaving to 3 more j-boxes, the bathroom wall light on the other side of the wall and receptacle #4. Now to the switch: The phase goes from the receptacle to the old toggle switch and then disappears upwards. There must be a neutral somewhere! In junction box #3 you can actually see THREE wires going up to the ceiling fixture, where only 2 arrive.

Remember that it actually works!
Concerning the receptacles it can be figured out quite easily what they did, but I have no idea about the light. I just have to rip open these walls. I'm too curious.

[This message has been edited by Texas_Ranger (edited 01-02-2002).]

You can still get the operator to connect long-distance calls here, but unless you really need to (e.g. for collect calls, called "reverse charge") you'd be mad to do it, as it's horrendously expensive.

The days of knowledgable operators are gone as well. A couple of years ago I called our international operator to ask for a current U.S. area code (somewhere in N.C. if I recall correctly). She said "00 1" (prefix and U.S. country code) so I expectantly waited for the rest. "That's it," she said, "00 1." I tried to explain that I needed the 3-digit area code, but no luck. She didn't seem to even understand what I was asking for. Quicker to just call the AT&T operator direct and get it.

I had a similar experience trying to get a number in Ireland from directories here. I ended up having to give the operator a lesson in Irish number schemes
but still didn't get it. He kept giving me a 1850 number which can't be dialed from outside Ireland. I eventually called the Irish operator who took pity on me and connected me for free!

***

I don't like the sound of twisted and taped wires just buried direct in plaster. It sounds like something a GC I know would suggest.

Similar routing restrictions apply under IEE Regs.: Horizontal runs within top or bottom 1 ft. (300mm), vertical drops in line with fittings where possible, and no diagonal runs.

The smallest size cable currently permitted is 1 sq. mm., although that's reserved almost completely for 5A lighting ciruits. We use 0.75 sq. mm only for flexible cords.

Most wall switches and receptacles used domestically here are a one-piece device and cover plate. Individual devices and plates are available, but tend to be more expensive so they're used mostly in commercial work.

Where individual devices and plates are used they usually need to be the same manufacturer. They all fit standard size mounting boxes though, as do most of the one-piece types.

Do you like the Schuko plugs and sockets? I know it doesn't really matter for most appliances, but I'm not sure I'm happy about them not being polarized. There are one or two cases where it can be important. Did Austria ever use any other type?

With the operator it's the same here. You always have to pay for full 3 minutes, and I don't know how much.

I don't like that either, especially in case of loose connections, when you have no idea where that splice exactly is and have to trace the whole wire by ripping up the entire wall. However, sometimes it's the same with j-boxes. The covers are often under so many layers of wallpaper and sometimes even a thin layer of plaster that you'd never find them. Sometimes they even are in the next room.
With the combo devices it's the exact opposite here. Combo devices that usually fit a single-gang box are horrendously expensive, so if any possible you avoid using them. Standard are modular frame wall plates where you can fit in almost everything, like switches, receptacles, phone jacks, TV jacks, Network jacks, ...
You just buy a 1, 2, 3 or 4-gang frame and the inserts that already come with the covers and screws. Frames and inserts have to be from the same manufacturer, except for some cheap imitations that fit the original. For example at Baumax (like Home Depot) you get the E-Tronics series that are imitations of the Kopp series and can be mixed. The boxes are all the same, either single, 2 and 3-gang or gangable. The biggest frames available are for 4-gang boxes.
0.75 sq mm wires are not permitted for fixed work here either, but the wires I'm talking of are at least 30 years old and probably have never been in code. Standard wire here is 1.5 sq mm rated for 16A.
Another nice thing about these rooms: All that stuff is fused for 16A. A licensed electrician did that 10 years ago. I first got suspicious when I hooked up a 150 W computer and a 60 W light to one of these receptacles and the lamp always got darker when the computer was switched on. i opened the receptacle and found 1.5 sq mm Romex. Then I traced it back to the next j-box. 0.75 sq mm single wires. Nice!

Schuko plugs and sockets: I have nothing against them, only they're a little bit big. We don't think much about polarization here, except for DC. I found an old book which stated that in ceiling light sockets the black wire has always to be connected to the bottom of the socket, the gray one to the screwshell.
However, that does't apply to modern sockets.

Older receptacles were nearly flat, with a 5 mm depp round hole that prevnted things getting between socket and plug, plugs were round with 2 prongs slightly thinner than the new ones. You can easily put a Schuko plug in one of those receptacles. Then there are special plugs for higher currents and for 3-phase. They look almost the same, only size, colour and number of prongs are different. 3-phase plugs are gray-red or yellow-red, fairly big and have five prongs. (3 phases, Neutral, ground). they're fairly common, for table saws, air compressors, farm equipment and most construction equipment like concrete mixers and that stuff.
Another nice story about that appartment and our licensed electricians: There were 2 journeymen working. one wired a junction box. he only twisted and taped (forbidden, you have to use block connectors everywhere). When the the other one saw that he asked him what he was doing. He said "Why not? It had benn that way before!" This in broadest viennese with yugoslavian elements. "Wieso? Des woa ollaweu so!"
So much about qualified work around here.

So your "code" now allows wiring either way to a light socket? That's interesting, as both the British IEE Regs and the American NEC require the outer shell to be neutral.

Unlike the U.S. and Europe though, Edison Screw bulbs aren't so common here. The majority of bulbs are a twin-contact bayonet type and thus reversible, so it makes no difference which way the holder is wired.

If you consider the Schuko plug to be big and bulky, I'm not sure what you'd think of the British 13A plug. That's really bulky!

I've seen the old 2-pin non-grounding plugs you describe elsewhere in Europe. The plugs are similar to one of our older types, except our pins ar slightly shorter, thicker, and spaced a little more closely together. They were conservatively rated at just 5A though. The grounding version had an extra pin (longer and thicker) in triangle formation.

The much larger 15A version had huge pins.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-03-2002).]

I dont have exacz ideas about that light socket stuff, but our modern light sockets have 2 terminals at the bottom, so only the bulb, not the socket goes hot. Furthermore I never again found anything about that rule, it seems to have disappeared in modern books. And it only matters with fixtures. Every lamp with a plug can be plugged in either way, so the wiring of the socket is quite unimportant.
I know the British plugs, they are huge. I always think of Italian, Swiss or American ones, where especially extension strips are much smaller than here.

I know what you mean as I've seen extension strips for Schuko outlets, and the ones for French plugs which are almost the same (just the reversed pin for ground instead of the side contacts).

We can get 3-way "cube" adapters for our 13A British plugs. One of those with a full complement of three 13A plugs is huge!

That's one reason why I still like to use the older 5A round-pin plugs in my workshop. They're much smaller and neater, and ideal where you have a lot of low power equipment.

Back again!
As soon as I get the film developed I can post tons of violations. I stumbled over an appartment where it is senseless to count how many and which rules are broken. It would be more interesting to count which rules are actually NOT broken.
Just think of yellow-green phases, live bare copper wires just plastered in, arcing connections in junction boxes, ...

Texas,

Welcome Back,
Where've you been, on 'walkabout'?

...Oh, that's Australia, Right?
(couldn't resist that one)

I'm looking forward to hearing about and seeing those pictures.

Bill

Let's start at the meter panel. Here in Austria the meter is usually inside the appartment, in one box with the fuses/breakers.
Before I actually saw that appartment I thought of one or maybe 2 6 or 10A circuits. When i opened the door of the fuse box I found 4 16 A fuses staring at me (phases and neutrals for 2 circuits, nothing unusual here.) However, all wiring was rated for max. 10A. Normally it's impossible to screw in greater fuses, but some ingenious guy had removed the screws at the bottom of the element that should prevent that. One of the hallway switches (an old toggle) works only after several slaps on the cover, some switches only stay in the box because the 4-5 layers of wallpaper keep them in place,...
bare copper wires in the plaster,... I have no idea why that never burnt down.