ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Anyone interested in Austrian systems?

Yes, I thought about the description Kent gave of Swedish junction boxes as soon as I read yours. We've never used anything like that here. Conduit was used in some homes in the 1920s and 1930s, but (like modern conduit) it had no internal covering. The wires used back then were rubber insulated and normally had a kind of impregnated cotton covering.

There's nothing to stop anyone using metallic conduit in the home now, but of course the cost in materials and labor mean that it's almost never done. Since WWII just about all domestic wiring is sheathed cables, rubber at first, PVC since the 1950s. The fixture boxes for recessed switches and outlets are still usually metallic, and need to be grounded.

From your comparisons with U.S. wiring, would I be right in thinking that you have spent some time in America? If so, then you'll be aware of how American house construction varies from that found in Europe.

Here in Britain, though, we also have most houses built from brick, so the problems of plaster coverings put straight on to a brick wall sound very familiar.

As you describe in Austria, timber partitions with plasterboard (drywall) are now common for internal walls here, but exterior walls are still most often plaster on brick, making it difficult to run cables and to sink boxes into the wall. And many old houses have solid brick interior walls as well, though some have brick in strategic load-bearing areas and lath-&-plaster elsewhere.

Do you have most meters inside the house, or mounted in a panel outside? Do you have tariffs that provide cheaper power at night? What sort of prices do you have to pay per unit? Is there a fixed monthly charge, or does it vary depending upon the maximum rating of your service as in some other parts of Europe?

By the way, your English is pretty good!

We used the same wires as pauluk described, but until the late 50ies. In the 30ies insulation usually was rubber with cotton only wound tightly around the wire. When you start pulling on a single end you can rip down the whole covering. It was used for either surface mounted knob and tube wiring or directly put into plaster as far as I've seen. In the 60ies PVC insulation came up, either single wires in conduit or a special type of double sheathed zip cord, with more space between the conductors. still common, in Germany more than in Austria. Romex came up in the late 70ies or early 80ies, but had to be in conduit when put in plaster. Since the early 90ies it is common to put Romex directly into plaster or use flexible PVC conduit. In cellars or other damp locations the only way of wiring is still to put Romex in conduit.
To the differences between European and American building: I have been to the US only for short periods, but once I lived in an old house in NYC that was short before breakdown, there I had good possibility to study the inside of walls, ect. Furthermore I'm interested in international building, kinda hobby, so I searched the web.
Most meters are inside the house, another difference. Power is cheaper at night. We have different tariffs depending on the rating of the service. For instance there's one for small homes, one for bigger homes, one for small business,...
thanks for the comments, "blame" my teachers, I learnt it at school.

Now I have a question mostly concerning the Americans in this forum, but evereybody who knows about, please help me.
A friend asked me for a favor. He wants to have one room wired American style. That means 120V, american boxes, switches, receptacles,...
I found very much info on the web but I'd be glad for every hint you can give me.
We're going to start with a standard 15A plug-in transformer from the next electrician. This will be enough as he also wants to keep up a 230V circuit for some appliances that only work at this voltage.
Now I need to buy the whole stuff on the internet, and I even found some electric supplies that sell over the internet. But I could only find boxes listed by inch size, so I have no real idea what i need for example for single switches or duplex receptacles.
Do you know any electrical supply you know that it ships to Europe?

Hi Texas Ranger,

well.... if your going to step down & create a nuetral, you'd have what we might call an SDS, or seperatly derived system. This gets into a bruhaha of grounding, etc...( at least according to our NEC here..)

Internet suppplies? yes yes..
http://www.e-barnett.com/
(they'll send a catalog if asked..)

edited for SP....

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 12-20-2001).]

OOPS!



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 12-20-2001).]

Tex,

I think you'll find that the standard single-gang mounting box is about 4 inches high by 2-1/4 inches wide. It will take a switch, single receptacle, or duplex receptacle. You can then fit a cover plate which has the appropriate openings and of the style you want.

Some single-gang boxes are designed to be gangable, e.g. you could fit two of them together for two switches and use a single cover plate of the appropriate size.

Thanks for your help.
As I'm already working in some kind of "grey zone" I don't think much about problems with the code. (All fixtures are not approved in Austria, ect) I was mostly interested in practical and security issues. I think the biggest problem will be that we will have to get even the lightbulbs in America as there's no 110V country around.
e-Barnet doesn't seem to be a really good idea, probably I'll try electricsupplyonline. However they use more abbreviations than you can imagine. So shopping there will be a nice pile of work. I'll also maybe get some stuff from laner.com. Does anyone has experiences with these companies?

You could order a limited range of 110V filament bulbs from England if you want.

Although all our "normal" lights are 240V, we have 110V power for lights and tools on building sites. You won't find candle, colored, or other fancy types, but regular pearl 40, 60 and 100W types are available in BC (Bayonet Cap) and ES (Edison Screw) fittings. The latter are the same bases as used in the U.S. and in Europe.

Try www.tlc-direct.co.uk

Have you found a suitable transformer for your project?

One of our surplus dealers here currently has a 5kVA unit, tapped 220-230-240V primary and 120/240V center-tapped secondary for about £110 (plus 17.5% VAT, although I wouldn't want to guess at the shipping costs to Austria!).

The thing about the bulbs is a good idea.
They sell plug-in type transformers with 1600W for travellers, they're around ATS 500,- ($30).
That will be enough for the 3 light bulbs, the stereo and the phone answering machine he wants to use.
I also won't have troubls with extra fusing for protecting the transformer and so on.
Interesting facts about the 110V in England!

Ah, that's sounds fine -- I wasn't sure exactly what your friend wanted to run from the transformer. Some places here also sell small (100VA to 2kVA) transformers ready fitted with a U.S. outlet for those wanting to use imported equipment.

Just one point about the audio equipment though. Does it include a record deck, and was it intended for North America? If so, and if the deck motor runs directly from the AC line then it will run slow due to the difference in supply frequency (60Hz America, 50Hz Europe).


The 110V for lights and power tools on building sites here is required by Health & Safety rules. The transformer used to supply the power has a grounded center-tap on the secondary so that no line is more than 55V to earth (big sites can use a 3-phase 110V xfmr which gives about 63V to ground on each leg).

I know some parts of Europe (including some of France and Spain) had 127/220V distribution, before standardization at 220/380. Were such 3-phase systems used in Austria?

You might also like to look at the thread "Historical systems" in the General Discussion area. I posted a quote from a book about a early (1880s) system used at the theatres in Vienna (Sorry, Wien!).

Merry Christmas!


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-24-2001).]