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#132918 09/09/01 02:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 43
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Thanks, Bill and Paul et al...
I think I must have sounded like I was on a rant(!)And, yep, you're right about a little knowledge...I think the perception of a lot of homeowners is that it's the same as building a deck-"how hard can it be?"(famous last words) Maybe it's the fact that they are required to hire professionals at a high price in some locales that tempts them to try things best left to the pro's, and save themselves some $. [Linked Image]
I've watched with interest the controversy over the hi-watt hairdryers, etc. Do any of the members of this BB have some advisory powers vis-a-vis manufacturing specs or code articles where electrical appliances are concerned?If not, how is this done? Is UL/CSA stamp the final word? I'm just curious, and thanks again.

[This message has been edited by mickky (edited 09-09-2001).]

#132919 09/09/01 03:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 43
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It amuses me that the Quebec stop signs say "ARRET", yet in France where the only official language is French, the signs actually say "STOP" in English. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah; never could figure that one out, and I was born and raised there!A few years ago, you could wire your whole house yourself there, today, if you buy a ceiling fixture, the instructions say in big, bold letters: "In the Province of Quebec, this fixture must be installed by a qualified electrician.In French Only." [Linked Image]

(Just kidding about that last bit...!)

#132920 09/09/01 06:23 AM
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pauluk Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by mickky:

Yeah; never could figure that one out, and I was born and raised there!A few years ago, you could wire your whole house yourself there, today, if you buy a ceiling fixture, the instructions say in big, bold letters: "In the Province of Quebec, this fixture must be installed by a qualified electrician.In French Only."

Ah.... Cette luminaire doit etre installer par un electricien qui parle le francais seulement..... (Apologies for my poor French!)

The "Health & Safety at Work" legislation here over the last 10 years or so has now made compliance with IEE Wiring Regulations mandatory for just about all commercial buildings. There's nothing to say who can or cannot carry out the work though, just that it must comply with the IEE Regs.

The main enforcement is from the "Health & Safety Inspectorate" who now have draconian powers (e.g. shutting down a factory because they still had signs which just said "FIRE EXIT" instead of the silly new pictogram versions). It's rumored that some of these guys are descendants of gestapo officers....

As I've said elsewhere though, as far as residential is concerned, there is no requirement to follow the IEE Regs. and anyone can carry out work. It's slightly different up in Scotland, because they have some laws which are different to English law.

#132921 09/09/01 06:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 43
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Not that bad, Paul...!

So what's the UK equivalent to UL/CSA? And how do things get changed there? Is it handled by the EC? My apologies if you've answered this elsewhere!

#132922 09/09/01 01:30 PM
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pauluk Offline OP
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Merci beaucoup Monsieur.....

Our equivalent of UL or CSA is the BSI (British Standards Institute). They publish standards specifications for electrical, plumbing, building materials, and a whole range of other everyday things.
Each particular specification is given a British Standards number, e.g. the standard for our normal 13-amp plug is BS1363. Items meeting the appropriate standard can display the BSI "Kitemark" sign.

A lot of the British Standards are set or modified by suggestion, discussion, etc. with the various associations, trade groups, and so on.

The EC is having more of an influence in recent years (I don't doubt the chief EC bureaucrats would like to take over completely). Many standards are now decided upon my a joint effort of the BSI and their counterparts in other countries. We're seeing new specificatios along the lines of BS:EN 12345 now, where the "EN" means "European Norm."

Britain is gradually adopting many Continental practices as we all converge: Our 5, 15, and 30A circuit breakers are disappearing in favor of the European 6, 16, and 32A standards for example.

There are still a lot of areas where the national institutes are unable to agree though.

#132923 09/09/01 01:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 85
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Well beings we're talking about Quebec here...In Canada we write an interprovincial ticket that(in Alberta)if we get 70% on, we're allowed to work in any province in Canada as a Journeyman Electrician. Except of course Quebec. Even though the province is 50% english you still have to write the interprovincial test in French.

#132924 09/09/01 04:28 PM
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pauluk Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by CanadianSparky:
Except of course Quebec. Even though the province is 50% english you still have to write the interprovincial test in French.

You mean that it's impossible to take the test in English in Quebec? Doesn't Canada's natioal govt. have something to say about that? I thought both English & French were official languages throughout the whole country.

#132925 09/09/01 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 85
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Funny isnt it? But our trades are administered by the Provincial Government and not the National. At the end of our fourth term of school the Interprovincial test we write is the same in every province and territory(except Quebec). Our code book is also recognized and adopted by all the provinces but each province has its own addendums. Most of our inspections too are also goverened by the province and different areas(big cities) have rules over and above the province.

#132926 09/10/01 05:51 PM
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pauluk Offline OP
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Quote
Originally posted by CanadianSparky:
Funny isnt it? But our trades are administered by the Provincial Government and not the National.

I'm sure one of our American friends will confirm this, but as I understand it in the U.S. it is the individual STATE laws which quote the NEC, so I guess it's similar in principle. (Yes, I know counties & cities can then add their own requirements.)

Our local govts. in Britain can pass local ordinances, called "bye-laws," but they've never extended to electrical work.

In fact many local bye-laws are treated as a joke and never enforced: Things like 19th century bye-laws making it illegal to hang out washing before 8 a.m. or something similar. Technically though, they're still in force.

#132927 10/27/03 12:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
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Paul said:
Quote
In fact many local bye-laws are treated as a joke and never enforced: Things like 19th century bye-laws making it illegal to hang out washing before 8 a.m. or something similar.
How on earth Paul could you take a silly by-law like that seriously?. [Linked Image]

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